*THIS ARTICLE WAS ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED IN 2018 AND HAS BEEN UPDATED FOR 2020 TO REFLECT THE CHANGE FROM DAIRY LIVESTOCK GROSS MARGIN TO DAIRY REVENUE PROTECTION.*

No two farm operations are the same. That’s why we customize your loan to suit your needs. We also understand that each operation also comes with its own risks and rewards, and we respect that, which is why we offer crop insurance. Managing your risk today means taking control of your future, because when it comes to crop damage, no one likes surprises.

Before we can discuss the different kinds of crop insurance policies, let’s start with the basics, and answer some frequently asked questions about crop insurance coverage.

WHAT IS CROP INSURANCE AND WHAT DOES CROP INSURANCE COVER?

Crop insurance is a risk management tool that is federally supported and regulated. It is serviced by private-sector crop insurance companies and crop insurance agents.

Crop insurance protects against the loss of crops due to natural disasters, like drought, freezes, floods, fire, insects, disease and wildlife, or the loss of revenue due to a decline in price.

In other words, crop insurance minimizes risk from elements outside of your control.

WHO IS ELIGIBLE FOR CROP INSURANCE?

If you produce an agricultural commodity such as corn or soybeans, you are eligible to purchase crop insurance.  Some insurable crops may not have a specific policy available in your area, but it may be possible that coverage can be obtained through a Written Agreement or under another type of policy, such as the Whole Farm Revenue Policy (WFRP).  If you are unsure whether a crop is insurable in your area, contact a crop insurance agent.  The Farm Service Agency also offers some limited coverage for non-insurable crops through the NAP program.

WHAT TYPES OF CROP INSURANCE ARE AVAILABLE?

YIELD PROTECTION (YP)

Yield protection crop insurance provides comprehensive protection against weather-related causes of loss and certain other unavoidable perils. YP provides late planting, prevented planting and replant protection.  Basic CAT (Catastrophic) policies do not provide coverage for replant.

REVENUE PROTECTION (RP)

Revenue protection crop insurance provides comprehensive protection that covers weather-related losses, other certain unavoidable causes of loss and price fluctuations. RP is similar to YP, except it provides the addition of price protection.

ADDITIONAL CROP INSURANCE COVERAGES AVAILABLE

• Dairy Revenue Protection (DRP)
• Livestock Risk Protection (LRP)
• Whole Farm Revenue Protection (WFRP)
• Pasture, Rangeland & Forage (PRF)
• Hail/Fire Policies
• Coverage for field crops such as corn, soybeans and milo, organic crops, orchards, nurseries, processing and/or fresh market vegetables, tobacco, grapes, wheat/barley, etc.

IMPORTANT CROP INSURANCE TERMS AND DEFINITIONS

Sales Closing Date – This is a specified date on file in your agent’s office. Sales closing dates are intended to be early enough that neither party to the insurance contract has knowledge of the crop’s production prospects for that year.

For policies continuing from last year, the sales closing date is the last opportunity to make changes (like coverage level or price election) to your contract for the upcoming year.

Production Reporting – To keep your actual production history (APH) up to date, you must certify each year your total production harvested. Production reports are due 45 days after the sales closing date for the crops insured on your policy.

Final Planting Date – This is the latest date a crop can be planted in the area and qualify for the full insurance guarantee. Acreage planted after this date may still be insurable, but at a guarantee that has been reduced to reflect the shorter expected growing season.

Acreage Reporting – After the crop is planted, insured producers must file an acreage report to certify the number of acres planted, the farming practice (example: irrigated, non-irrigated, etc.) and any other information required to insure that crop in that area.

Cancellation – Crop insurance policies are continuous policies, meaning they’ll continue from year to year unless you cancel them before the sales closing dates for the crops you have insured.

Claims – A claim should be filed on your policy as soon as you feel there may be a loss to your crop. Do not destroy any acreage until you’ve spoken with your crop insurance agent.

Subsidies –

CAT = Catastrophic insurance

Premiums – They are the same for all insurance providers and are usually due around the time that the crop is harvested.

WHO PAYS FOR CROP INSURANCE?

Congress created and provides funding for the modern-day crop insurance system as a way to help farmers manage the risks of natural disasters and market fluctuations.  The Federal Crop Insurance Corp. and Risk Management Agency set program standards, approve new products, set premium rates, and discount farmer premiums.  Even though the premiums for crop insurance are subsidized, the farmer still pays a large portion of the premium out of his own pocket, along with shouldering an average deductible of about 25-30% of his crop.

WHY DO I NEED CROP INSURANCE?

Using crop insurance as a risk management tool puts a safety net under your cash income. In times of low production or damaging weather, crop insurance enables you and your operation to meet your financial obligations – both business and personal, and helps to ensure the survival of your farm business.

HOW DO I SIGN UP FOR CROP INSURANCE?

In addition to being full-time crop insurance agents, our staff members are trained to act as advisors on your team. Give us a call and ask to speak to a crop insurance agent today – they’ll review the ins and outs of your operation, educate you on the products that are available in your area, and help you choose the level of coverage that fits your needs. Once you sign up, they’ll even keep you on track with sales closing dates, reporting needs and other deadlines.

You can find other resources on crop insurance through the USDA Risk Management Agency, including policies, registered agents, and more!

LISTEN TO Darlene'S EPISODE HERE OR FIND US ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST LISTENING APP!

On this episode of the Farm Credit AgVocates Podcast, we interview Darlene Livingston, Executive Director for Pennsylvania Farm Link about farm succession planning. Darlene will share with us her own farm transition story and her experience as a Certified Succession Coordinator with the International Farm Transition Network.

In this episode you’ll learn why farm transition planning is important, lessons learned from farm transition mistakes and useful tools to start your farm transition.

Johanna Rohrer:

Welcome to the Farm Credit AgVocates podcast. I'm your host Johanna Rohrer, Marketing Specialist at Horizon Farm Credit. Today’s guest Is Darlene Livingston, Executive Director with Pennsylvania Farm Link. She is responsible for the daily management of the nonprofit organization, where they have reached over a thousand participants with hands-on farm succession workshops. She serves as an expert in farm transition planning resources and is a Certified Succession Coordinator with the International Farm Transition Network. Darlene isn't a stranger to Pennsylvania agriculture. She also is a fourth generation family farm partner at Mahoning Creek Farm, where they operate a diversified livestock and crop farm in Indiana County. One of their goals is to include the fifth generation in the future of their family farm. I'm pleased to welcome Darlene to the podcast.

Hi Darlene.

Darlene Livingston:

Hi, Johanna. Glad to be here.

Johanna Rohrer:

Thanks for joining us.

I WANT TO JUST START OUT JUST WITH AN INTRODUCTORY QUESTION TO ASK YOU ABOUT YOUR PERSONAL AND YOUR PROFESSIONAL CONNECTION TO AGRICULTURE.

Darlene Livingston:

Sure. As you said, I was born and raised on a livestock and crops farm. I worked beside my parents and grandparents on that farm. I graduated from Penn State with a degree in Horticulture that I'm still waiting to use more of it. My husband Bob, our children and I spent 20 years on South Branch Angus Farms in York County, where my husband managed the farm. We were active in forage programs and owned our own farmette in York County. Then, in 2013, we transitioned back to my family's farm in Indiana County when my dad was 80. So I like to say we did it wrong, but we did it.

The farm should have been transitioned earlier, but we did talk with our children. They were interested in being the next generation on the farm. And therefore, I felt we became the bridge between my father's generation and our next generation, and came back to the farm.

I currently serve as the President of the Indiana County Farmer's Market. And I'm also involved in the Indiana County Sustainability Task Force, which is important to me to be involved in local activities. I began working for Farm Link in 2009 and quickly became involved in succession and transition planning work, as I realized how important that was to all farms, not only those in Pennsylvania. That's where our next generation gets an opportunity to farm, is when the farm lands are transitioned and provide that opportunity, whether they're family members or outside the family, that's where our opportunities come from.

And I've been active in the International Farm Transition at work. We had held two farm succession coordinator trainings in Pennsylvania, which I coordinated.  I currently serve on the board of directors and through this process, I've been able to work side by side with Ag professionals from across the United States and learn from them about farm transition techniques. So I have a great opportunity to work with Ag.

Johanna Rohrer:

I think what's so unique about your experiences that you're not only helping other farm families to go through farm transitions, you're also definitely an expert in helping to facilitate with some resources through that process. Also, you’re living that transition as well in your own life with your family, I think kind of takes the experience to the next level. It makes it more real and more authentic. I know I've had the privilege of meeting your children through 4-H and various events and experiences in the agricultural industry over the years. It’s definitely neat to see how your family operation has evolved, because it's definitely been a journey like you were sharing with us earlier.

FOR THOSE LISTENING, WHO AREN'T FAMILIAR WITH PENNSYLVANIA FARM LINK, COULD YOU HELP DEFINE THE ROLE THE ORGANIZATION PLAYS IN SUPPORTING THE TRANSITION OF FARM OPERATIONS FROM ONE GENERATION TO THE NEXT?

Darlene Livingston:

Sure, I always feel that we have three facets that we work within and the first one is farm transition education and facilitation. We carry out educational programs, utilizing high quality Ag professionals sharing their expertise, and we also facilitate individual farm family meetings. If families need that, we direct them to the correct professionals to assist them. One of our other areas is the database we have of entering farmers seeking land and also land owners seeking to lease or sell their farm land, and those opportunities are there and we work to connect the people. And I will say for beginning farmers, one of the biggest challenges in the database is if they're willing to move or relocate, because many times there may be an opportunity, but it might not be right where they're currently at. So that makes a difference, it just depends where the people are at. And then also consulting. We often find ourselves talking to someone about next steps, if they are a beginning farmer or those looking to get into farming, we often get calls from people like that and also some senior generation farmers. And what we try to do is discern where they're at and then give them the appropriate next steps and direct them to organizations or resources that can help them in their journey.

Johanna Rohrer:

It's neat that you're talking about helping to make connections. It could be connections with particular resources for your farm transition and succession planning, or it could be bridging the gap with “hey, this is a really great industry expert that could help you from a technical standpoint to make that transition.”  Also, just from the facilitation standpoint, when I think about my experience with farm families, a lot of times the emotion is a big component for a farm family and sometimes the emotion, and the transfer of business plans or business decisions, can be sometimes really difficult to go through. So I can see why it's so important to have that kind of third-party perspective of bringing not only a connection of resources, but also that expertise to kind of just help that process move along.

HOW MANY FARM TRANSITION OPPORTUNITIES DO YOU THINK PENNSYLVANIA FARM LINK HAS HELPED TRANSFER IN THE LIFETIME OF THE PROGRAM?

Darlene Livingston:

Ones that I can count, I would say there are about 20. Now those that would have developed a succession plan, the others, I would say we have had about 1,200 people now through our succession workshops. And I'm sure just from speaking to them outside of meetings that many of those have moved forward on their own and with other Ag professionals, and that's great. Our goal is just to see the plans take place, whether we're helping them or whether we are the conductor that started the process and they then move forward on their own.

Johanna Rohrer:

I think that's a good point to bring up because everybody navigates from succession planning a little bit differently, and every operation has its unique opportunity to transition from one generation to the next. Every family is different. So there's different dynamics that play into those spaces and there's a variety of resources, like you said, that folks can look for and it is very helpful to help make some of those connections from a resource standpoint.

Over your time working in the program, what has been the biggest lesson you've taken away from your experience assisting as a farm transition facilitator? I'm just thinking, what do you wish farmers would be considering during that beginning stage process of farm transitioning?

Darlene Livingston:

The one thing that I would like everyone to keep in mind, and I think it's important to keep in mind is you cannot start too early, but you can start too late. The next generation cannot wait until you are ready normally to transition. Most farmers when they're ready to transition to the current generation on the farm is when they can't move anymore. It really happened to us when they can no longer do it on their own, then they're ready to start talking transition, but that's not good for the next generation. That's not an appropriate timing. The next generation needs to be working on this ahead of that. This all needs to be started, the earlier the better. In many times I will even advise young families, if your family will not talk about this, if you don't see room for yourself there, you need to look at other opportunities outside of your family farm, because it's not fair to ask a young family or young individuals to wait till I'm ready, when I'm 70 or 80 to turn over the farm. That's not fair because then they've lived half their life just waiting on an opportunity and we can't ask them to do that. And I have seen that mistake made and have people ask me when it's time to start. My heart would break because the answer is, well, you lost your opportunity. Your family member has moved across the country or whatever. They're not going to come back now. They were here to do that and they didn't see the opportunity. It’s a tough thing for the operating generation to do, but it's very important to start early.

Johanna Rohrer:

It is, and I think sometimes the older generation might not always see the perspective of the younger generation and vice versa. So it’s one of those conversations that I think evolves with time, but I tend to agree with you. It's a tough conversation sometimes to have, but when young people in agriculture see opportunity, it's important that they're able to capitalize on that experience and move forward with some of their goals.

SO AS FARM FAMILIES ARE GOING THROUGH TRANSITION, ARE THERE ANY SPECIFIC TOOLS THAT YOU WOULD ENCOURAGE THEM TO CONSIDER DURING THIS TIME OF TRANSITION?

Darlene Livingston:

Yes, as far as tools, we actually have a workbook called “Planning the Future of Your Farm.”  It's available on our website and we have hard copies. But what I found is that to be a good tool because farmers use it. There's worksheets in it for families to work through together and it often can help lead the conversation. And also “Farm Family Communications,” a workbook and online resource. There’s various quizzes in there that I've found very useful. We've used them in our own family and proved them to be a benefit. And also the other item I think is so important is to have qualified Ag professionals to assist them in whoever they are that “H” farm will have a different set of people. As you've mentioned, each farm transition is different and has its own unique entity, but make sure you have your qualified Ag professionals who understand agriculture.

Johanna Rohrer:

That I think is one of the key takeaways. As we are building networks around farm families and seeing those resource networks be created, it is really important to keep in the back of your mind when you are a farmer to reach out to people that have specific agricultural experience. That becomes very useful, whether it's from a legal standpoint or an accounting standpoint or a finance standpoint, there's all of these buckets of people that can help you bring resources or perspective that maybe you're not thinking about yourself. And then also to make sure you're reaching out to mentors or maybe other farm families that have gone through the transition to see and to hear their stories of what's worked for them.  I know that I've seen a lot of younger farm families reach out to neighboring farm families that are going through transition, and it's just a conversation of being able to learn from each other. And I think sometimes just that common takeaway is an important reminder for us not to overlook.

WHAT DO YOU SEE AS A COMMON MISTAKE OR SOMETHING THAT YOU SEE PEOPLE KIND OF DO WRONG THROUGH FARM TRANSITIONS?

I know we talked about starting a little bit too late in the process, but is there anything in particular that you feel like you've seen in your role of this as something that has really gone wrong in a process in the farm transition process?

Darlene Livingston:

Yes, there's a few things. One thing I will mention here is that the farm is not a pie. It's not something that can often be divided equally. Those are probably the most challenging calls I get and usually it happens in an estate plan. Those are the most challenging ones because it's very hard to keep that farm as an operating farm often when that happens. So don't be afraid to make the tough decisions, but make time to complete the necessary tasks. It's awfully easy on a farm to think about the everyday work that needs done on the farm, but not take time for transition planning. Communicating about the transition is always a challenge in farms. I don't think anyone can ever communicate too much, willingness to be honest and make the tough decisions. And those would be include the fair versus equal and things like that. So those would be some of the challenges that I see, some of the larger ones.

Johanna Rohrer:

Again, to kind of go back to what we talked about a little bit earlier. Farm transition planning is emotional because it involves family and business. And sometimes when you tie those two pieces together, you're exactly right, communication is just key to start the conversation and then making sure you're taking enough time to walk through that journey in that process.  I think also having the understanding that it's going to be a journey. It's not a fast process.

SO DARLENE, WHAT MISCONCEPTIONS DO YOU COMMONLY SEE WITH FARM TRANSITIONS?

Darlene Livingston:

I think one of the biggest misconceptions is when farmers presume they know what someone else thinks or anyone presume they know what the other thinks or once, and often this happens when it's presumed, they want a cash payout from the farm. They want an equal inheritance when that's not always what they want. They still have a passion for the farm, so they would like to see it continue and to be carried on by that sibling who is farming or wants to farm it. Lots of times they are easier to work with than one might think. They have a whole different goal than what we presume they have. I think it's important to ensure that everybody verbalizes what their desire is. It's important to have everyone's input and not presume that we know. So have them all involved, have them all around the table, have them on a zoom call, whatever it takes to have the conversation, I think is an easy way to help work through that.

Johanna Rohrer:

Taking your advice from common mistakes of not having the conversation, not asking the right questions, but then also, if you assume that you think someone wants X, Y, and Z to happen with the farm transition, it is important to bring that all together and remind yourself, this is an opportunity to have a conversation to talk about the future of the farm, what it means for the family, what it means for the business. Commonly, I find that farm families are incredibly connected to the land. There is an emotional connection to that space. There’s great memories, most likely of growing up on your family farm operation.  I think those are really great suggestions for our listeners to remember.

I want to kind of shift gears a little bit and talk about something that we commonly hear a lot about with the younger generation wanting to get into farming, and that's the topic of land accessibility. That's a big challenge for beginning farmers. I know we briefly talked about in the introduction the tools that Pennsylvania Farm Link offers to help identify land accessibility in the state of Pennsylvania. 

COULD YOU EMPHASIZE A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT YOUR ONLINE FARM LISTING DATABASE AND JUST BRING OUR LISTENERS UP TO SPEED ON THOSE RESOURCES?

Darlene Livingston:

Sure, we have an online database and anyone who wants to enter are welcomed to enter that database. There is a one-time fee for doing that. We also provide other opportunities that they can have a one-time listing on Facebook or something like that without being a member of the database to look for opportunities. So there's a couple ways that we try to help them. And when they're a member of the database, it is listed online, it's listed through a number. You have a reference number that people can peruse the database online and seek to learn more about you by contacting us. And we will make the connection, but it is a confidential connection to ensure everybody's privacy and to prevent issues. It's a great opportunity for beginning farmers who are seeking land to have their information out there and look to find an opportunity. We have landowners who look at our database, they may have land available or thinking what they're going to do with their land and we’ll search our database and look for some of the beginning farmers listed there as potential matches for them. And we will seek to provide that information to the land owner. There will be a cover letter or a business plan, whichever the beginning farmer has about what they would like to do in regards to their farming operation that they're looking to have land for, and then that starts the conversation between them and a potential landowner.

One other important thing I would like to say for beginning farmers, is the importance of their financial stability. They need to take that seriously and think about that as they're planning for their future, minimizing their debt and trying to have some savings there to help them with assets they'll need to purchase, whether it's equipment or whatever, as they obtain land. They do need to have that financial stability to make that move. I know there's also lots of programs and Farm Credit has programs to help them as well. That's often one of the stumbling blocks, I think for beginning farmers. And they also probably should recognize too, that about 70% of today's farmers also have an off-farm job that assists them financially and help some with some of the benefits such as health insurance and so on. We do have that database, but that's just another little pointer that's important.

And one other thing I did want to mention, I ask our next generation, so our beginning farmers and our family, what their advice for next generation farmers would be before I got on this podcast today, and I want to share those. One was to over-communicate with the operating farmers. The other one was to find their own role within the operation. Another one was trying to think about the perspective of the other generation you're communicating with, which I think is always important. My other next gen farmer, he's a little on the funnier side and he sent some funny comments. I translate those to say that essentially the senior gen may not understand all the hip lingo or the hashtags and all that, but we all have to remember that's what the next gen brings to the table, or it is a learning opportunity for the senior gen too. But we all need to remember that each generation has assets that they're bringing to the table and whether they're looking for land, what they're bringing to me, if I have land and a land opportunity is available, I need to be open to that.

Johanna Rohrer:

What a good reminder to reach out to both the senior generation and the junior generation to get some perspective. I love that advice from the senior generation, and to stay enhanced with your communication skills and help define your role and what that's going to look like for the future. And to try to understand that there is perspective for both parties as you're going through that transition. That's a great reminder, but then also to think about it from the junior generation, there's so many things that you have to think about when you get started and there's a lot of steps to go through. A good reminder to keep your business plan in the back of your mind and make sure you're working on that or taking a finance course to brush up on your financial skills, or just helping to surround yourself with a network of other young farmers that are going through the process as well. I always find it helpful to learn through my peers to remind people in the agricultural community as well. That's just such a wealth of knowledge to start those conversations and create those learning experiences. So with that, there's so many farm transitions that will happen.

AND I'M JUST CURIOUS IF, DARLENE, YOU HAVE ONE PIECE OF ADVICE IN PARTICULAR THAT YOU WOULD WANT TO PASS ALONG TO THOSE FARM FAMILIES?

Darlene Livingston:

I think the one piece of advice I would pass on, which probably leads into a little bit more explanation, but that would be not to meet at the kitchen table. That’s one thing I learned early on and it seems a little bit odd. It seems a little bit like what's the big deal, but what happens when a farm family meets at the kitchen table is everyone takes on their family roles. When you go to sit down, their dad sits at his place, mom sits at hers and the kids all follow in line at their normal positions. And therefore you're setting up that family dynamic and what you need to remember when you're working with the farm, transition or any type of farm meeting with family members is you want to be in a business mindset. You want to have that business hat on, not the family setting hat.

It's important to meet somewhere else other than the kitchen table. I would challenge our Ag professionals to do the same when they go in and meet with someone to sit at a different place, or if they find out where dad's seat is then sit in it yourself. Change it up, even if it's a table made out of saw horses and a sheet of plywood in a machine shop or something on the farm. In normal times, churches or extension offices or local coffee shops and other organizations allow farm families to meet there. I know we're in unprecedented times right now. So you might have to think creatively, you may need to meet in the living room or somewhere, but if you do, and dad has a special chair, do him a favor and sit in it for him.

What you're doing is you're setting up the business mindset again. It’s just taking some of the family dynamic out of it in a subconscious way and setting that into a business aspect, and that is very important. And right now, even with using video conferencing to include those other family members that are outside of the area. They can be joined in from anywhere. These things will help you make the business decisions, which helps to set aside the emotional ones. It's really very important that when making business decisions that you're interacting as business partners, not as father and son or father and daughter. It’s very important to be interacting on a professional basis with those family members that you may have raised them, but it's important to treat them as equals in the family business. It’s just a small thing, but yet it's a huge thing when you look at that perspective.

Johanna Rohrer:

I think that's a great takeaway, to define a space for those business decisions. Whether right now that's looking at some sort of technology platform to connect family members, or it's a space in a farm office or maybe in the community. I think that's a good reminder for all of us to make sure you define that time and what you want to accomplish in terms of your business objectives, when you're sitting down to have those conversations, that's a great piece of advice.

So before we sign off today, I just want to wrap up with a final question.

WHAT DO YOU ADVOCATE FOR IN AGRICULTURE?

Darlene Livingston:

In case you can't tell, I have a passion for farm transition and succession. I really do have a passion to see farms move to the next generation and play a role in that positive impact because I see that it's the future of farming, which also impacts the rural economy of Pennsylvania and across the nation. I also have a passion in my local area. I believe we were brought back here for a reason, and that is to see agriculture move forward here. To me, that includes educating our local consumers and public officials about Ag and its needs. And also developing more markets in Western PA and our rural area, trying to advocate for that and more Ag businesses moving into the region and providing some of the opportunities that are available in some of the other regions of Pennsylvania that we're a little further behind here. And just seeing agriculture move forward here would be a great thing to me and something I hope that we can play a role in and I can play a role in.

Johanna Rohrer:

That’s a fantastic reminder for all of our agricultural listeners today. We have such a great opportunity to connect with our community and help bridge that gap between our on-farm production and our community family members, being able to help share with them the story of how we produce the agricultural goods that so many of us have grown to enjoy. There's always a story behind that and there's always great opportunity to help make those connections in our community. So that's awesome to hear about your advocating efforts. And it's also fantastic to have someone like you who is able to bring together that expertise in farm succession planning, and also to have such an authentic view of going through this process yourself. And I think that that just brings so much more credibility to the conversation and definitely builds your level of experience. I really thank you so much for joining us today. For more information about Pennsylvania Farm Link visit PAfarmlink.org.

Remember to rate, review, subscribe, and share this podcast with a friend, get notes and subscribe to our email alerts at mafc.com/podcast. And remember, send any topics or guest suggestions to podcast@mafc.com.

Looking for more information about farm succession planning tools? Join Farm Credit, and Pennsylvania Farm Link this winter for a virtual education experience on how to create a Farm Transition Plan Webinars series from 11 to noon on January 11th, January 25th, February 8th and February 22nd. We hope to see you soon.

We are excited to announce the hiring of Jessica Clarke as a crop insurance agent in our Denton, Maryland office. Learn more about Jessica and how she fits into the Farm Credit family:

She grew up on her family's farm in Frederick County, MD,

where they raised Angus cattle and quarter horses. Jessica loved growing up on the farm because it never allowed her a chance to be bored. "Living on the farm is how I instilled a good work ethic and grew my love for agriculture. I love to be outdoors and I love animals, so it was the perfect combination for me," she says.

Jessica participated in 4-H and FFA,

which caused her to pursue an education in the agriculture field. She was a member of the Rocky Ridge 4-H Club, Maryland Junior Angus Association, and Catoctin FFA Chapter, serving as President, Vice President and Secretary.

She currently raises Angus cattle

alongside her boyfriend at WF Angus in Queenstown, Maryland, where they sell and show cattle all over the country. “My favorite part of raising Angus cattle is breaking the calves each year and helping get them in the hands of customers who fall in love with their purchase and go on to succeed and learn with that animal, the same way that I did growing up,” she adds.

Jessica volunteers a lot of time in the local ag community:

• Livestock Sale Chairman at the Queen Anne's County Fair
• Volunteers with Queen Anne’s County 4-H Livestock Programs
• Serves on the Maryland Angus Association Board of Directors
• Co-Chair of the annual Queen Anne’s County Agriculture Awareness Day

She has valuable experience in the industry, 

working for the USDA Farm Service Agency (FSA) as a Program Technician prior to joining Farm Credit. In this role, Jessica handled the operations and applications for all FSA Assistance Programs to Queen Anne’s County farmers, and served as the Maryland State FSA Communications and Outreach Specialist.

Jessica is a graduate of West Virginia University,

where she earned a degree in Agriculture Extension Education with a minor in Agriculture Business.

We look forward to introducing Jessica to our members and sharing her knowledge and experience with the community.

Listen to Trevor's episode here!

Welcome to the Farm Credit AgVocates Podcast. I'm your host, Meaghan Malinowski content and digital strategist at Horizon Farm Credit. Today's guest is one of my favorite stories. Trevor Hoff owns and operates Local Homestead Product's farm market in New Windsor, Maryland with his wife, Victoria. I could spend a couple hours telling you about their hydroponic greenhouses, fresh produce, homegrown lines of meats, or even the countless number of events that they host on their farm each year. But it really just wouldn't do their story justice, not to mention Trevor is much funnier than I am, so he’s much better at telling the story. But this year in 2020, after the COVID-19 pandemic started back in March, they ramped up their operation to be ready to serve their customers, even in the most unexpected of ways. This interview is going to talk about some of the changes they made, some of the innovations they had and where those ideas came from. Without further ado, here's my interview with Trevor Hoff.

Let's go ahead and jump right in. Welcome to the Farm Credit AgVocates Podcast.

TREVOR, COULD YOU INTRODUCE YOURSELF AND TELL US A LITTLE BIT ABOUT YOUR OPERATION AND EVEN WHERE YOU GOT STARTED?

Trevor:

We come from New Windsor, Maryland right here in Carroll County. We're kind of the heart of Maryland here. We have a little bit of everything and we're definitely the rolling hills here. We own and have two farms here totaling, just over 200 acres where we grow, produce and raise beef cattle, chickens and pigs. But the main focus of our farm is our on-farm market. Now, we didn't start with an on-farm market, I actually started selling beef jerky in high school to some of my teachers and other students from cattle we raised here on the farm. So that morphed into the thought of having a store once I graduated high school. And then that turned into a bigger thought of, well, we can't just have beef jerky, we need to have other items. And now we sell for, my gosh, it must be 50, 60, 70 different farms, just right now up and down the coast. Also having a greenhouse with all kinds of flowers and vegetable plants. We also grow hydroponically. My wife grows hydroponic lettuce there, so we do a little bit of everything and that's what makes our farm kinda neat.

Meaghan:

 I've had a blast watching you guys on Facebook and social media. You guys look like you're pretty busy with everything going on.

Trevor:

We are extremely busy with everything going on. You know, we were not expecting this. Victoria and I sat down and talked right when this started, when it started to happen. And I said, yeah, I think it's going to be busy for a little bit. Then I think the real slow down is going to happen. And the first week we were very busy and we thought, now it's going to slow down. Then the second week it was busier. The third weekend was busier. About the fifth or six week after me telling my employees that it's going to slow down, they told me to stop saying that because every time I said it would slow down, it got busier. And I think a lot of that is just because we reacted the way people wanted us to react. We got ahead of the game before the grocery stores did and we were able to keep things pretty well stocked.

I contribute that to being able to work with small farms, local farms, local butcher shops, sending our animals out to these butcher shops to get processed, you know, that smaller food chain didn't get interrupted as much as the big one did. And so that kind of helped us. And really, I think our company has grown and our farm has grown due to the fact that we were able to keep things stocked. So I think a lot of customers that have kind of lost faith in the grocery stores to have things stocked are going to rely more on that small farm market in the local community. And I'm hearing this across the board from a lot of my friends in the industry, a lot of the people around that we know are saying the same thing that the farms are really busy.

Meaghan:

Well, you took my first question away from me and you knocked it out of the park. That was really what I wanted to touch on first was what some of your thoughts were when it came to running the market during the pandemic.

Were you guys nervous? Were you scared at first?

I think it's a true blessing that that it's been so busy and you've been able to kind of look back on that and say, you know, I have been wrong for the last five weeks saying it's going to slow down.

WHAT WAS THAT INITIAL THOUGHT WHEN THE PANDEMIC KIND OF STARTED AND YOU GUYS WERE THINKING ABOUT THE MARKET? WHAT WERE THOSE FIRST CONVERSATIONS LOOKING LIKE?

Trevor:

Well, the first week before the governor really started touching base, we started seeing a couple of weeks where it was like, huh, it seems like it's getting a little busier and nobody was really talking about it. But the moment that it started becoming national news, we started seeing that really big uptick. And the first week that we really noticed something going on, was we had a line in the store that wrapped around the whole store and nobody could shop because nobody could get through our store because our store is very small. You see our Facebook posts and you see some of the pictures of the greenhouse and outside, and it seems like, wow, they must have a really big place. And Meaghan you've been there. It's not a big place at all. We just are a little farm with that moves a lot of product.

And so to get that working, we made the decision when they said, “hey, we shouldn't have more than 10 people in groups,” we were like, okay, that's what we'll do. We started limiting right then and there probably about three or four weeks before the grocery store limited people, to 10 people in our store at any given time. And we are still what's it been eight or 12 weeks from doing that, and we're still limiting and still having lines. And I really appreciate the customer base that we have for understanding that we have a small store. We're not a big grocery store that can accept 250 people at any given time. And they just stand out in a line. And, you know, what's funny is sometimes, it’s not weather dependent on whether they're going to stand in line or not.

Mother's day weekend, our Friday, Saturday were the days where the weather wasn't that great. Friday was wind, cold and rainy and that was our busiest day. And we had 150 people waiting in line when we opened the doors. Sunday mother's day was beautiful. The sun was shining and there weren't any lines at all. And I think a lot of that has to do with the mentality of we're staying away from that place when it's really nice out, because it's going to be so busy. Well, when everybody thinks that and goes to the other days, well, then it makes the nice day actually nice to come out.

Meaghan:

Yeah, 100%. I know  I remember coming out and shooting that testimonial video with you guys. And I think if I remember correctly, 10 seems like almost full capacity for the market. And I'm, I was shocked that you guys are able to offer such a wide variety of stuff in such a small place, but like you said, you guys offer a lot of different things. And I think it's, it's been cool for me to see from even just from on Facebook. Cause you know, I'm, I'm a couple of hours away from you, but seeing the response by your community has been so inspiring. And that kind of brings me to my next question and feel free to deflect if you don't want to give me all the juicy details, but you know, everybody has started operating differently from grocery stores to other farm markets and it's really just to keep their heads above water.

HOW HAS THAT AFFECTED YOUR OPERATION? ARE YOU SEEING AN INCREASE IN SALES FROM LAST YEAR?

Trevor:

We are definitely seeing an increase in sales. And I think, like I said before, a lot of that has to do with the fact that we responded so quickly and we were on top of it. I think if you got behind the eight ball here on this, people were really looking for somewhere to shop right away. Somewhere where they felt safe, somewhere where they felt wanted. And if you didn't offer that right away, offer a safe place for them to shop, they kind of looked past you. And I think a lot of these people opening back up will still be very busy, but I think they missed that first wave of panic buying.

 I mean, we had people buying loads of stuff to the point where we had to start limiting how much we were allowing go out of our store. I am never been one to want to limit anything. I'm always the one that says, Hey, come buy more. And I was having to limit how many eggs people could buy and how many pounds of ground beef people could buy, because we just couldn't keep up. And I would tell customers that it's not that I wanted to limit things. It's the fact that if we limit to this amount, we can supply everybody that wants to come in the doors. But if we have people that come in and buy 50 or a hundred pounds of ground beef to throw in their freezer, well, then we start having issues keeping up with supply. So for us, yes, business is good. And I can tell you that I didn't think it was going to be that way when this all started. I thought we were going to be busy and then I thought it would taper off very quickly and it just has not done that.

We are definitely up from last year. And I'm hoping for a solid season the rest of the year, because that is a concern that everybody is sharing and all this is that if we are so busy now, does that mean we're going to have a really sharp turn come summertime? Because usually there is that summer slowdown for us when everybody else kind of opens back up with their farm markets and their town or their towns have farm markets or their gardens start producing. And it usually slows up a little bit in the summertime for us. And we're thinking that that's not going to be as much this year, that hopefully it continues to stay steady. And hopefully that means good things for the farm.

Meaghan:

Absolutely, I mean sitting here talking to you, I didn't really think about it much before, but I don't have many markets that are in my immediate area. And I think that a lot of people are looking for an excuse to get out of the house right now. I have done my fair share of garden center shopping and things like that. And there's something about going and buying a ton of plants and bringing them home and then just waiting to be able to put them in the ground. But that's kind of been like my silver lining for this. And I think for a lot of people being able to go somewhere where they feel comfortable and people are friendly and nice, I think that's probably part of the reason why you guys have been so successful too. I think people probably feel good about coming to see you.

Trevor:

And I, I think you, you bring up a great point about the plants and all that because people are having to stay home. People want their house to look good. And here's the strange reality is the fact that they don't have that vacation that they are going to be spending the money on so, or they might not. And their thought is that they might not that vacation, and they're not going out to eat as much. And they're not spending as much as the gas pump because gas prices are cheap and because they're not driving as much. So all those things add up to a little bit more money in their pocket, even though some of them might be laid off work right at the moment. So all they're saying is make it so that, you know, our worries about having a full greenhouse and knowing where to go with the plants in the beginning of all, this have really changed.

And we were really concerned about how many hanging baskets we had because we grow hanging baskets ourselves. And we also sell for a couple other farms that grow, that don't have retail establishments. And I was calling those guys in the beginning, kind of telling them, we're going to try our best to move your product, but we might have to cut back and I don't know what we're going to do with all of it. And then we actually sold it out quicker than we ever have. And we're having to bring on more farms to try to have more flowers, have more veggie plants. Most of the garden centers in our area or are out of vegetable plants, and we still had tomatoes and peppers left and they were actually sending them to us because we were the only ones with them anymore. So it's really been a boom in that.

And I think a lot of that is also for the small guys that are in my kind of business that a lot of customers didn't know we were there. In the life that we have now in 2020 you get so used to driving to work, shopping at the same places that you shop in and just going with the routine. And this has really made you get out of your routine, check around your surrounding area and buy stuff. I mean, I usually would never take notice of the license plates that are in my farm market parking lot. But the past couple of weeks I've been looking around and I've noticed Virginia license plates, West Virginia license plates, Pennsylvania license plates. And, you know, I got to talking to some of these people and I had people that were two and a half hours away from their home. But like you said, they just wanted something to do.

Meaghan:

That’s amazing!

Trevor:

So they drove two and a half hours to a farm market that they saw on Facebook and came up and bought some plants and some produce.

Meaghan:

And then took them home like a little plant road trip.

Trevor:

Exactly, So, you know, it amazes me how far people will travel for this. And I think we take it for granted the way, the way we think people should be treated because they're not in the big box stores. You know, for us treating people the way we treat them is because that's the way we were raised. This is the way we treat people, because that's how we would want to be treated. And in the box stores, that's not the case. They're looking to get you in and get you out. And that I think is another selling point of why you want to shop local, why you want to know your farmer. And I have people that come in that I know their kids. I know what sports they play. I know the kids that have gotten married and who are going to have babies. You know, we have multi-generations shopping in our store. So those are the kinds of things that Safeway or all these other grocery stores don't know. And the thing is, if you don't shop at that grocery store chain that week, they most likely won't notice it, but a small farm market like ours or any of these other guys, you know, we notice when you shop with us or when you don't. And it definitely helps when you shop local and shop small with the small farm.

Meaghan:

I know we talked a little bit about when everything first started coming out and all of the different stay at home orders and the limitations on how many people could be here, there, or whatever that looks like.

Outside of putting that limit on how many people are in the store or waiting in the line around the outside of the market:

HAVE YOU GUYS STARTED ANY NEW PROCESSES TO HELP KEEP THINGS RUNNING?  DO YOU FORESEE ANY OF THEM STICKING AROUND ONCE WE GET INTO OUR NEW NORMAL?

Trevor:

The simple answer to that is yes, we are looking at some things that we had sworn we would never do because we didn't want to lose that touch with the customer. And this has really opened up our eyes to think, well, maybe this is what we need to do. We had decided that, we didn't want to do online sales as much. That was not our thing. We wanted people to come experience the farm. Well, this has kind of pushed us in the direction of some online sales. Now we are not a farm that has everything online. And I don't think we ever will with probably 500 to a thousand different items in our store, you know, that's not where we're headed.

Meaghan:

It would be hard to manage that inventory level.

Trevor:

Exactly. But what we are seeing is people wanted a curbside option and we said, no, that's not something we can do. But then we got to thinking outside the box a little bit, and we came up with what we call our essential farm pack. And it's a hundred dollars. Every week you can sign up on Monday and pick it up the following Monday. And what it is, is our farm is actually closed on Mondays and Thursdays to clean and get shipments in and that kind of thing. So we had this day on Monday that we were able to bring people out to the farm, keep them in their cars, put the stuff in their cars for them, and it already be paid for, and a whole lot less touching, a whole lot less interaction. And folks have really been loving that. It really ramped up during the first month and a half. Now we're starting to see it plateau a little bit, but this is something that I don't think we're going to get away from anytime soon. I think people like the fact that they're able to come with in their car, especially families with kids, as we try to say, hey, just send your essential shopper in. Well, if you have young kids, you might not be able to let them sit in the car or maybe somebody is working and you have to take the kids with you. We get that right. And that's why this has really taken off. And, you know, it's, it's got a glass bottle milk in there, usually a dozen eggs, loaf of bread, all kinds of produce, all kinds of meats, some different baked goods from our bakery or from a couple bakeries that we work with. So it's a little bit of a different concept, but it really, really works.

And I think that's really helped us out. The other thing is that a lot of these farms started doing what we call a produce bundle, and we have always sold produce bundles. We, we don't want to say we started them, but we had them a long time before they became cool during the COVID-19 issue. But we've had produced bundles for four or five years now. And we do a $25 produce bundle every week of the year, where we work with farms all up and down the East coast and put together this value pack for $25. And that has really taken off to, as people were worried about their income trying to make sure they were spending their money wisely, that really helped them with that. And I think that that side of the business has just increased because of all this. And I don't think it's going to back off and have that summer slump, like we've always felt.

Meaghan:

Well. You know, what I really like hearing from you is that, I think obviously you guys have to do what you need to do to stay in business and keep making those sales. But for you guys, it seems like it always comes back to what does the customer need? What do they want and how can we give it to them in a way that makes them happy? And I think you guys are, I mean, you've got to be excelling at it every time I see another post, you guys are selling out of your produce bundles and really just, you look like you're blowing it out of the water. You guys were the OG produce bundle.

Trevor:

Well, you know, we just try to do what we would want done to us. And I think that's, that's the big thing. And for us these other folks that don't want to do what the customer wants, it amazes me that they're still in business because I see that sometimes where it's, they just want to make it harder for people to shop with them. And we have to make it easier to shop with us. I mean, you've been to our store, you've seen how out in the middle of nowhere we are, and we have to make it easy to shop. We have to make it a convenience buy for them to come out to the farm and buy everything that they need on their list so that they're not going here, there, and everywhere. They want to come to the farm and buy everything. And you can do that.

You can get your glass bottled milk from South Mountain Creamery at our farm. You can get our eggs, you can get produce from a bunch of different local farms. You can get chips that are made in Pennsylvania fried in true lard, ice cream, mean everything under the sun, you can get right there at that little farm market. And the comment that I always hear from people is I've driven past this place a hundred times, and I would have never thought you carried this much in this little building. And that's the true story. I mean, we really jam pack it in there.

Meaghan:

You do! And my other question for you, was so you guys have always, collaborated with other growers and different producers and stuff like that.

SO HOW DOES [GROWER COLLABORATION] WORK? DO YOU REACH OUT TO THEM? DO THEY CALL YOU? HOW DID THAT KIND OF CHANGE WITH LIKE COVID-19?

Trevor:

So it's a little bit of both. If we see a product that we just fall head over heels with, well, then we know that our customers will too, and we reach out. But sometimes we have farms that just call us and say, hey, we are starting to grow this, we'd really like to sell it at your store. And we're always open to that conversation because as we grow, we need more farms growing for us. We can't grow enough and to touch base on that side of the business. You know, I never wanted to be the person that grew everything because I don't believe you can and do it well. I believe that you can do one, two or three things really well. And then if you start doing a hundred different things, it starts to suffer. And I find that there are a couple of things that we grow really, really well.

And there's a couple of things that I just lack luster in growing. But I usually know the person that grows the best of it, and that's, that's the person we want to get from. So I really think that's the way we head with things is a more specialized kind of deal where you can have a better product that way.

 Now back to the COVID thing, is the thing that I noticed the most with going into quarantine and all that was just the supply could not keep up with the demand. And that's the plain and simple fact of it. And you started seeing it the first couple of weeks, as they, as shelves got bare at grocery stores. They started to feel bare at our store, but we were able to call these different local farms and say, hey, we need more of this or more of that.

And we were able to talk to our butcher shops and get more appointments lined up and get this really working right ahead of the schedule here. But still with all this and everybody working behind the scenes we still had some bare shelves every once in a while. We still had some things sell out quicker than what we thought and weren't able to get them picked quick enough, or weren't able to fill the shelf back up as quick on ground beef or something like that. And I always tell people that come into our store to shop is that you kind of have to come with a fluid list, a list of the stuff that you want, but be fluid in the fact that you might not be able to get that porterhouse steak, but there might be a T bone there. And you might not get the exact Apple variety you want, but usually we'll have some kind of Apple there.

So, you know, we're not competing with the grocery stores on having every item there all the time. But what we try to compete with them and I know we can compete with them this way is having the best of the best there all the time. And that's where we strive. And this week we had a beautiful, local strawberries come in and what would have lasted me two weeks, any other year, we sold in one day. So it's just, that's a testament into the fact that people are coming, people are buying. I think people are maybe making some jams and that kind of stuff.

Meaghan:

Trying new things.

Trevor:

Trying new things getting on Pinterest and trying it out, you know,

Meaghan:

Letting their mind run a little wild.

Trevor:

That's right. Trying different things and just going to town with it. And that's the fun thing about this. And the fun thing about shopping at our farm is you can try different things. The produce bundle kind of allows you to do that. We had we had kohlrabi in there a couple of weeks ago and you know, not many people know what kohlrabi is. And I explained it as a German turnip almost but a really, really great vegetable. And we have it in purple and green, but not that many people know it exists, let alone know how to use it.

Meaghan:

Trevor, did you listen to my podcast episode?

Trevor:

I did not.

Meaghan:

I literally came up with that. Jenny and I were talking about producing content and I was trying to give people an idea of what kinds of content they could write for their website or for Facebook or whatever it is. And in all of my research. And I can tell you, I've never been to a grocery store where I've seen kohlrabi on the shelves, but I can't tell you how many CSA’s have it, obviously around here. And so I brought that up on our episode and I was like, I don't even know if I'm saying it right.

WHAT DOES IT TASTE LIKE THOUGH? TELL ME, HONESTLY, WHAT DOES KOHLRABI ACTUALLY TASTE LIKE?

Trevor:

Absolutely nothing. And that's, so I tell people that kohlrabi tastes like absolutely nothing and everything all at the same time, because you can make kohlrabi tastes like whatever you want it to.

Meaghan:

It’s a wonder vegetable.

Trevor:

Yes. Whatever seasoning you want to throw at it, you can make it work. So yeah, I can't say that I am a huge fan of kohlrabi. I will eat it raw every now and then, but yeah, it's something that all the CSA’s grow. Of course I don't call myself a CSA because I don't want to get into the act of you buying something from me every week without knowing what is in it. I just like the mindset that you get to choose, whether you want my produce bundle or not. And you get to look at what's in it before you have to make that choice with your money.

Meaghan:

I like that approach. I think that's unique there. I mean, there's definitely the pros and cons to each way. right. But I think you're, you're giving the customer the option to make the decision at the time rather than is it six, nine months ahead of time.

Trevor:

Yeah. And, and, you know, I will say that it does not happen overnight that you're able to do that. And it is a little scary of a concept because your numbers fluctuate so much that you have to have a pretty good store to back it up, to be able to move some of that product, if your produce bundles die off a little bit to do it. Whereas a traditional CSA, you know how much to grow every week because of how well or how many CSA shares you sell. And I personally think it's a wonderful program to start a farm and run a farm off of, because you get a set income that you know, you'll be having. And it makes total sense. But for us, I wanted to give a different option and touching back on that idea that we wanted to give customers what they want.

Meaghan:

Speaking of options, you guys just started doing are you guys doing take home meal kits or is it meal kits that you give all the ingredients to?

Trevor:

So we have we don't have a take home meal kit for produce, but we do have a take home meal from another bakery. They make it and put it in a container and you can heat it up. But the take home meal kits are definitely a big thing that are popping up in the industry that I think are going to really take off because people have not been for the last five or 10 years, people have not been eating at home and you now have a generation of people that don't know how to cook for themselves. They grab a bite to eat on the way home from work because they work till eight, nine o'clock at night in the office building, or what have you, and don't have time to cook on their way home or once they get home. So, or you have people like my, my wife and I that, you know, it's two of us, it's hard to cook a meal for two people which you probably know.

Meaghan:

It is. A lot of left overs.

Trevor:

Exactly.  So when you divvy that kind of meal out like some of these other farms are doing, it makes total sense because you're able to do that and able to compete against the meal service companies that have been shipping food to people's homes. And I think it's a great concept and it's, it's definitely taking off. And the thing that I will say, that's good, that's coming out of this is it's made some of us local guys in small farms, especially in Horizon Farm Credit area and footprint really figure out how to sell their product differently without our big farm markets thriving in the cities, without the restaurant service that takes a lot of the local products as well. We have to find a way to move them and it has made us come up with some great ideas and I've seen some great things come out of it different farms just for having to figure this out. And I think if anything, good comes out of it, hopefully it's the good thought that people know that the local farms are there and they're able to get stuff from them. And hopefully that continues after all this is done, that people don't forget the local farms that were there for them.

Meaghan:

Yeah, absolutely. I think that is definitely something that's going to come out of this. I also think that the idea on the producer side to the innovation, like you said, and how people are diversifying to make things work and find new ways to be able to sell their product, whether it's to consumer or you know, outside of that realm. And it seems like you and Victoria have really made a habit of pivoting and adding new things to the lineup. And you guys are always trying something new, which makes me think that you guys are really comfortable with change, which is not something that most people can say.

WOULD YOU SAY THAT YOU GUYS ARE PRETTY COMFORTABLE WITH CHANGE?

Trevor:

I, myself am not (laughs).

Meaghan:

No way.

Trevor:

Victoria is.  I could get stuck in a rut and Victoria sometimes says that I could figure out, what three meals, I want for the rest of my life and eat the same three meals every day for the rest of my life. And I'd probably be fine with that. And that is a hundred percent true.  I would be fine with that, but at the same point in time, it’s a little different because yes, I am not a huge fan of change, but I do get bored a little bit sometimes with doing the same thing over again on the business side of it. So, she and I have a lot of discussions and she is definitely the leading force with a lot of stuff, especially Facebook and marketing. And I know you had told me you're going to talk to her about a podcast at some point in time.

But she is, she is the one behind the scenes making this all work. And she has some phenomenal ideas on how to keep changing and how to keep pivoting because we know customers get bored with stuff. For example, we had these maple sticky buns when all this COVID-19 stuff started happening, one of our bakeries said, hey, we're coming out with this. And this was before that and it just happened to be right around the same time that this all happened. So with everything going and we were like, yes, send in a couple cases, and well those couple of cases sold.

Meaghan:

Probably immediately if I had to guess.

Trevor:

Exactly. And then, okay, send in, send in double that amount. And then at the peak of this, we were buying in a pallet a week or a pallet twice a week of maple sticky bonds from this bakery, a whole pallet of it.

Meaghan:

I'm not going to lie, if somebody showed up to my house with a palette of maple sticky buns and they said, did you order this? I would lie straight through my teeth. I would say you bet, sure did, bring it in.

Trevor:

But you know, as fast as it came on that we were selling that many people get their fill of it and people want to try something different. So you start seeing that decrease and then it starts to level out and plateau as, as the best word for it in the, where the sales of that item should be. So to keep up with everything, you have to be bringing on that next new product, that next new big thing. And sometimes it's hard to keep on doing that. I, I sometimes wake up and I'm like, we're just tired.

Meaghan:

Yeah, they're keeping you on your toes.

Trevor:

And you know, I, I think Victoria is, is better with change than I am to touch back to your original question. But you know, for me, I think change in the business or at the farm market, you know, is not that big of a deal for me, but change in my regular life, that's a whole different story.

Meaghan:

Oh, sure, sure. Absolutely. Well, coming from somebody who's not a huge fan of change,

WHAT ADVICE WOULD YOU GIVE TO AN ANOTHER OPERATOR LOOKING TO DIVERSIFY OR ADD SOMETHING NEW OR TRY SOMETHING NEW?

Trevor:

I've learned that you just have to keep trying. If I would have stopped when I should have, when all the numbers, all the people you know, I used to hear from through the grape vine, I'll call it through the grapevine, I'd hear, you know, they're never going to make it there. And, you know, they had some points in time, I thought they were right. Our little farm market probably as a business, if you ever looked at it from a business degree, you would have looked and said, you know what, this makes no sense to be open. The first couple of years it probably didn't, but we kept trying, we kept reinventing the wheel until the wheel worked. And you have to find which one works for you. And I see on Facebook and on Instagram and all these different places and through emails of farmer's markets, doing different things and I think you knew that might work at our farm.

But for me, it's more of a thing that you have to kind of pave your own path and sometimes produce bundles, like for me work really well, but in other areas they wouldn't work well. So, if I would have given up in the beginning, I wouldn't have ever been able to ride this phenomenal ride that we, we get to ride now. And even before COVID, before all this, we were doing fairly well as a farm market out in the middle of nowhere. And it's always been a whole lot of fun. And that's another point that you always have to make it fun for you. If you don't wake up in the morning and decide that it is, it is going to be fun, doing what you're doing, you got to find something else to do, because if it's not fun working the long hours that you have to work in the farm market industry or being at a farm or for any of these things, you won't want to do it long because I can tell you that I don't get paid by the hour because we'd be making pennies every hour.

So that's, that's the big thing for me is have fun with it, but also pave your own path, make it work for you. Because if I would have taken everybody's advice that they gave me, I don't think we'd be where we're at. I think we would've changed paths too many times, and sometimes you just got to keep on chugging at it until it really sticks. So it's a, it's a whole weird world when you are selling to the general public. And there are a lot of people that liked doing it, and there's a lot of people that don't like doing it. And that's one of those things where you got to love it. You got to love wanting to sell products and wanting to sell your products. I mean, the thought from this coming week, we're going to start picking sugar snap peas. And the thought that we planted those by seed and grew them all the way to this and get to watch them head out the door in pints just amazes me. And even after doing this for 10 years or having the farm market for 10 years, it still amazes me and makes me happy. And that's how I know I'm doing the right thing.

Meaghan:

Well, I think it makes a lot of your customers happy too, especially on that note of fun. I love the video series that you guys have been putting out to acknowledge the homeschooling parents and the kids trying to do schoolwork from home.

WHO CAME UP WITH THE [VIDEO] IDEA?

Trevor:

So I definitely have to give that idea to Victoria. While we were sitting in the store one day you start hearing from these parents that have no idea where they're or what they're going to do with their kids being home. And you know, we usually have a bunch of field trips that come out. We do interviews with different classes all the way from kindergarten, all the way up to college. So it was a weird environment for us not to have the field trips. And, you know, we started talking and said, well, why can't we? And we had a friend of ours that's in the video business. And he said, you know, let's do this. And with help from you all at Farm Credit, we were able to get this done and it's been a whole lot of fun and people love it. People were able to show it to their kids. We've had classes, we know that there's several teachers sending it to their classes. So we wanted just to make something that would help people out during this time. And that's what's happened.

Meaghan:

Almost like carrying on what normal would have been just in a different format.

Trevor:

Exactly. You know, we don't have to change everything that we've done. There's still a lot of good things that can't be done right now, but they're going to be done in the future. And one of those is field trips and the fact that we could have people in our sow barn looking at the little piglets, you know, that's not something that normally we allow during even the regular field trips, just because of a biosecurity standpoint. But with video, we were able to do that. And that's what fun about it is.

Meaghan:

Yeah. They turned out fantastically and from our point of view, obviously it's very easy for us to write a check when you guys are doing all the hard work, but it has been an awesome project to see come together. And I haven't seen very many of them come out. I think I want to say center for dairy excellence might have put together a couple of virtual tours. I know there's quite a few of the bigger names that are doing it. Cause it's not, it's not always the easiest project when it comes to video, but I love that you guys took a multi week approach. There's something new to come out each week. And I think that was a very, very nice nod to all of the parents trying to figure out that, that weird homeschooling thing that they really didn't sign up for.

Trevor:

Yup, absolutely.

Meaghan:

So two more questions for you.

SO SINCE THE MARKET HAS BEEN PACKED AND AMIDST ALL OF THIS CHAOS, HAVE YOU GUYS THOUGHT ABOUT ANY PLANS FOR EXPANSION FOR THE MARKET SIDE OF IT?

Trevor:

Yes. the, the answer to that is yes. We are hoping to do an expansion at some point in time. The farmer in me, says let's go, let’s build. Because I know that I can grow enough and get enough from enough different farms so we can fill that place. But the business side of me says, hold up, wait a second, this isn't going to last forever. And so it's a tug of war here that we know will, at some point in time lead us to building a new store or expanding the store we're in. We know that we want to stay there on the farm. That's not that's not up for discussion, really. We are staying on the farm, but how that store is built or looks is definitely being talked about. And what is included in that store is definitely being talked about. I know that when all those plans get announced, it will be a fun, fun week of showing people everything on Facebook. And I look forward to the day that we're able to open doors on a new market, but it's definitely going to take a whole lot of time and planning and a whole lot of money, which at least we know Farm Credit will back us up.

Meaghan:

Well, I'm not in any position to be handing out anything, but I do like your odds so far, so good. Right.

Trevor:

So far so good.

Meaghan:

Well, that's really good news. And we look forward to hearing that I'm going to make the trip up when you guys open your new market. Whenever that decides to be. So I will be first in line.

Trevor:

There you go.

Meaghan:

All right, Trevor. Well, my last question for you, and then I'm going to let you get back to work, I'm sure you still got plenty to do. At the end of each episode, we like to end with the same question for everyone.

WHAT DO YOU ADVOCATE FOR IN AGRICULTURE?

Trevor:

We want to see people understand where their food comes from. We want to bring people back to the farm. I feel like we are so many generations removed from the farm anymore, that we don't understand as a country where our food comes from. And I think it's very important to know your farmer and know the person raising your products and know everything that goes into that, because knowledge is a great tool. We see so many different articles on why something is bad or bad for you or that kind of thing. But if we all got to know our farmer a little bit, I think the world would be a little better place. And our little farm market is just one step in that long journey of knowing who creates your food in a bakery, who grows your produce out in a field, who raises that animal, who butchers that steak. But I think you need to know every step of the process to really understand how it gets there and why it gets there because it's an amazing system. And I think sometimes as a country, we take it for granted. But the COVID-19 issue has really put agriculture in the front of everybody's minds on that. And we are super excited to be a part of that, but we know there's a lot of learning to go ahead, but I think it's a great start into knowing where your food comes from.

Meaghan:

Well, I think you guys are serving that mission so well, and I couldn't agree with you more, it's, it's an important mission to serve, and I love seeing what you guys are doing. And I think you guys are doing that one customer at a time in person, you're doing it probably by several hundred people on Facebook each time you make a post. And we love seeing it. We love supporting you guys. And I really appreciate you talking to me today and kind of given our followers some insight on how this has affected you guys. So I really appreciate your time.

Trevor:

Hey, well, we really appreciate you all having our backs at Farm Credit. We have always enjoyed our relationships with everybody that we've come into a meeting through Horizon Farm Credit, and it's always been a pleasure. And thanks for having us with all your people.

Meaghan:

Absolutely, absolutely. Now also, please tell Victoria, I said, thank you. I know that she's the real brains behind this operation, so make sure she knows.

Trevor:

Absolutely. She is absolutely the brains behind the operation. I won't hide that one bit

Meaghan:

Behind every good man. That's how it goes, right?

Trevor:

That's right. It is exactly how it goes. And our relationship and our farm is his no different from that. I mean, she is, and I will tell you this about her. She, she did not have a real big ag background. She had a horse, but did not come from a farming family and she has jumped into this. And I don't know if I want to say this, but I will anyway, she's a better farmer than I am. And you know,  I have it running through my blood, but she is, she is the one top of it and I will I will always push her up on that, she is definitely the brains behind the operation.

Meaghan:

Oh, well, I figured as much and you're smart to say it.

Trevor:

That's right.

Meaghan:

Alright, Trevor will. Thanks again. Have a good night and let Victoria now I will be calling her soon.

Trevor:

That sounds good. See ya.

This article was originally printed in the April issue of the Plain Dirt Newsletter. Budgets might be tough to stay with at the beginning, but just think about how rewarding it will  be in the long run. We are happy to assist you with making a budget plan that fits your wants and needs. Contact us today 888.339.3334.

Do you keep a budget for your family’s living expenses? It takes time and discipline, but the benefits are enormously valuable. Not enough families take the time to budget and track their spending, and many end up paying the cost. If you don’t do it already, here are a few reasons to keep a budget and track what you spend.

1. You’ll spend less

By creating family living budget goals and then tracking your actual expenses, you tend to spend less overall. Closing your eyes and spending aimlessly without keeping track will almost always lead to greater spending. You’ll save on living costs and have more to save towards longer term financial goals.

2. You’ll worry less

You don’t have to worry about where all the money is going because you know where it’s going. At the end of each month you can look at the total amount you spent, compare it to your budget goal, and sleep soundly knowing that you’re on track. If you notice you overspent, you can come up with a plan for making up the difference next month. Having an achievable plan reduces stress.

3. It will help you plan

It’s hard to plan for your financial future if you don’t know what you spend now. By creating spending and savings goals, you can predict your yearly financial progress. If you’re struggling to make ends meet or not making as much progress as you had hoped, knowing your budget will make it easier to problem solve and to make adjustments. It will show you where you’re doing ok and also where you need to buckle down and cut costs.

If you earn a steady wage income, you can set and know how much you can expect to save in a year. If your income varies (you have your own business/ farm operation), you’ll know how much you have to make each year to cover your living costs.

I talked to a farmer who calculated the amount of money his family needs each month to cover living expenses. Each month, no matter how much money the farm operation makes, he writes a check in that amount from his farm account to his family’s personal account. Knowing the exact amount of his living draw each month helps him plan financially for his farm operation. A consistent, modest draw ensures that no more stress will be placed on the farm operation than necessary. I know another dairy farmer who set up automatic withdrawals to transfer $200 twice a month from his checking account to a savings account. Each withdrawal is set to transfer a week after his milk check is deposited. Knowing his numbers and managing his living expenses has enabled him to make that commitment to consistently saving.

4. It’s freeing

Maybe you’re afraid that having a budget will be too constricting. Actually, many find that having a budget is actually freeing. When you have a budget line for each category of expense, you can spend in each of those categories without feeling guilty, knowing that you can spend the budgeted amount and still be on track for your long term financial goals. If you don’t have a budget, each time you spend money you have to wonder if you’ve gone too far, which can actually make life more stressful.

5. Reduce family conflict

Money is often the issue that brings the most conflict between a husband and wife. A budget can be a great communication tool in this area. By tracking expenses and creating a budget, husband and wife can have a conversation together to determine an appropriate budget amount to set for each category. Then as long as each sticks to those commitments, nobody has to say to the other, “Why did you buy that? We don’t have money for that!” Rather, each has the freedom to spend up to the budget amount in each category, having already received the approval of the spouse when the budget was created.

No better time than now to start budgeting

If you don’t do this already, maybe it’s time to consider starting a family living expense budget. If you’re new to this, start by tracking your family living expenses for a few months to get an idea of what you spend in each category. Then sit down as a couple and discuss an appropriate budget amount to set for each category going forward. Continue to track your expenses in each of those categories, comparing your actual results to what you had budgeted. Below is an example list of categories. Each family, however, should customize categories specific to their situation.

• Groceries/Dry Goods
• Clothing
• House Rent or Mortgage Payment (if this is included in your farm or business rent, adjust accordingly)
• Propane/Gas
• Kerosene/Coal
• Utilities
• Taxi
• Shoeing/Carriage Repair/Hay for Driving Horses
• Medical
• Tithe/Offering/Charity
• Entertainment
• Vacation
• Miscellaneous (items that don’t fit any of the other categories – there are usually more here than you’d think!)

We thought it would be interesting to poll our readers on what their average living expenses are. If you have been tracking your living expenses and would like to help out, comment below what other expenses you feel are important to account for. Thanks for your help!

STORY BY ANDREA HAINES

Heavy clouds of steam swirl from atop of a warm coffee cup, a man stands in a barn gazing out into the lot where his animals are happily munching on hay; he sips from the cup adorned with words from Proverbs 17:17, “A friend loves at all times”. This is a scene familiar to many producers – whether it’s the quiet moments of a morning, long hours atop a tractor seat, or sitting in front of a pile of paperwork. Oftentimes, we as providers revel in the solitude. It can be peaceful and uplifting, that one-on-one time with animals or tending the earth, however, stressors and demanding times can allow pressure to creep inside, allowing fear and doubt to overtake one’s self.

SHEPHERD'S WHEY CREAMERY

“It’s important to have another [person],” according to Dr. James “Toby” Behrmann. “We need another, who invests in us.” Dr. Behrmann has a view from both sides of the fence; he has a PhD in Clinical Psychology and is licensed as a clinical psychologist in Maryland, Virginia, and West Virginia. He and his wife Suzanne also own and operate Shepherd’s Whey Creamery, a Grade A goats’ milk processing facility in Martinsburg, West Virginia.

“I remain in full-time practice, including a part-time position as Chief of Psychology at a State of Maryland medium term residential treatment center for Dual Diagnosis Intellectually Disabled individuals,” he explains. “I work with children, adults, and families in private practice outpatient psychotherapy, with a subspecialty in family law issues such as parenting, custody, and adoption concerns.”

Dr. Behrmann’s involvement with farming is in the crop/hay area, growing mixed grass and legume hay, and repairing buildings and machinery. “I can dovetail this somewhat time-flexible dimension of our agriculture life with my private practice hours,” he shares. Suzanne has a master’s degree in physical therapy and retains a license, but for her, there was a complete shift to full-time farmer and business owner after the creamery was built. He says, “She has primary responsibility of the herd management, cheese making, and marketing.

“We formally started farming operations in 2006 on our small 2.75 acre property that remained of what had been a horse-plowed 10- acre working farm.” He chuckles, “I would describe our farming endeavor as a 4-H project starting with just two dairy goats and homemade goat cheese of various sorts that got completely out of control. You know, where one small thing leads to another logical, relatively small ‘needed’ next thing, and finally you step back and ask, ‘Whoa, wait a minute, what are we doing?’”

The Behrmanns were fortunate enough to live in an area of historically small farms that had many active and retired farmers who took interest in them and their questions. “To make a small farm financially viable, we had to have a value-added product and/or niche market, as we would not be competitive with large-scale agriculture,” he shares. “The farm’s close proximity to a large population with discretionary income was another advantage in lowered transportation-delivery time, and costs to potential target market. In a swap of services for land use from a neighbor, we had leased 20 to 30 acres of older fields we could work up for hay.” Finally, access to saved start-up funds, plus a construction loan for the creamery thanks to Farm Credit, Shepherd’s Whey Creamery was born in 2012.

FINDING ANOTHER WHO INVESTS IN YOU

“Farm Credit was the critical outside help we could not have done without in starting our farm-creamery venture,” he shares. “Farmers are, and need to be, immanently practical. They tend to view relationships with people the same as they do their own work. In moving forward in life, words only go so far; without action, nothing will actually be accomplished. Thus, it is counter-intuitive (to them) that it might be useful to go somewhere just words (talking) are used about one’s problems (counseling). This perception, long with revealing what is usually supposed to be private, can appear to be shameful, and a waste of time and money.”

Dr. Behrmann continues, “But when we are repeatedly unable to do what we know makes sense, we need interpersonal help. We can forget that most of what we’ve absorbed has come from personal instruction and support. Some of us from a parent who told us and showed us the way. Some of us from the extra time and investment of a teacher or a club leader. When we each alone are not enough despite our reading, or inherent experience, our resolve is we need another.”

He continues, “This is not a flaw. It is designed into us from the get-go. Whenever the task is overwhelming us, when we can’t get a handle on it, we need another. All our life, from infant to adulthood, whenever we are repetitively unable, we need another who invests in us. The type of help we need is in specialized information and targeted relational support. Finding and receiving that genuine investment and expertise towards us is itself the sufficient ‘action’ to accompany words.”

According to Farm Credit Loan Officer Michelle Trumpower, “The Behrmanns are very conscientious borrowers and don’t make decisions until they have had the opportunity to think about the subject which makes them such successful business entrepreneurs. They have been with Farm Credit for many years,” she shares. “After evaluating another bank, they reached out to us for purchase on a neighboring property. A positive experience coupled with many of us being ‘farmers’ ourselves, they decided to remain with Farm Credit.”

Aside from Farm Credit, there was no other lender that would consider a smaller loan, even for a credit-worthy small farmer. “They maintained a supportive accountability, not a critical accountability, throughout the project,” Dr. Behrmann shares. “Now, the new loan based on our creamery success to date not only matched other lender interest rates, but also saved us literally thousands in funding costs. Of the various lenders we explored, no one either cared about or understood our overall goals, our big picture, like Farm Credit.”

Michelle explains, “They are always looking to become educated about new and better processing methods, and want to incorporate upgrades to the creamery.” Suzanne comments, “We offer our products at farmers’ markets in West Virginia, Virginia, and Washington D.C., high-end restaurants, specialty retail stores, and on-farm.” The farm consists of 30 French Alpine dairy goats, most deriving from Munchin Hill genetics in Pennsylvania. As the cheese-making expanded, they shifted to purchasing two-thirds of the milk from Liberty View Creamery, a goat dairy in Littlestown, Pennsylvania. “This helps us meet the demands of our customers year-round,” shares Suzanne.

“Farm Credit understood us and how this next project dovetailed with what we were already doing and where we wanted to head, and why,” says Dr. Behrmann. “Farm Credit doesn’t just say ‘partner’ to us, they are ‘partner’ with us.”

CAREER ROLES CROSSING PATHS

For Dr. Behrmann, both career roles cross paths daily. “As a psychologist, I have begun to introduce the concept of short periods (two to four hours) a couple times a week of farm work/animal care to the intellectually disabled adult population. I think there is a large opportunity being missed for mutual gain for farmers within their repetitive aspect of animal care that can match to the desires and abilities of a subset of intellectually disabled responsible adults.”

Psychological research has long documented the decline in loneliness from someone living alone, who has to care for an animal. Dr. Behrmann suggests a research study from Kari Black, PhD, from 2012. Black looked at 239 rural adolescents in the U.S., and companion-animal attachment. The study’s results suggested that interventions promoting a close animal bond (which included farm animals) not only lowered loneliness, but could also help promote and elevate social bonds with others.

“Very generally speaking, mental health focuses on the quality of one’s life,” he shares. “Mental illness focuses on the type of emotional/interpersonal deficit that is interfering with the needed minimally adequate functioning of one’s life.” He continues, “We want there to be gain over time, not stagnation or decline. This improves quality of life, and we all know habits are slow to overcome or implement. It might mean something as simple as delaying an impulse purchase. It might mean remembering to take the initiative to seek out and say hello to a spouse when back on site. It might mean just not putting the coffee cup ‘there.’”

Losses can mean different things to each person. “We also don’t want significant loss to our life while we are working on this aspect of our thoughts, emotions and/or actions,” he explains. “If some aspect of our life is at risk for severe loss – loss of a relationship, loss of physical health, or significant financial behavior risk, then that risk is a much more quickly functional risk, not just a quality risk. Stronger, faster interventions need to be put in place much more quickly to prevent things from getting much worse and even more complicated in an area of one’s life that is most likely already not a personal strength. That is best handled by obtaining timely outside help on a weekly and accountable basis, be it a psychologist/mental health counselor, a pastor, a Bible study support group, a mentor, financial advisor, and so forth.” Thus, this point loops back to how farmers are practical beings, but still has depended on guidance from ‘another’ their entire lives.

“As a farmer, I personally know the time demands and struggle to make ends meet that are often an inherent part of farming,” explains Dr. Behrmann. “Cost requirements mean that we do as much work as we can alone without help. Demands mean that even with a spouse or steady farmhand we divide up the tasks between us in order to get the work completed, and so again, we are working alone. This aloneness can morph into lonely and empty feelings inside.

“Real joy comes from doing something worthwhile,” comments Dr. Behrmann. “Being about something bigger than yourself that you get to share with others.” He urges us to look inward, “Do you have a relationship group at its core that has these qualities: consistent in core group member attendance; consistent in meeting weekly; consistent in members of the group sharing vulnerably and mutually supportive; and finally, ability of members to occasionally meet with one another outside of the weekly scheduled time?” His point drives, “Without others to know us and celebrate our small victories and care about our small failures, we become more ‘pinched’ and grumpy, and more likely to enter a type of depression where all is a tasteless routine.”

Clearly, a connection is needed to form or continue a business and way of life within the agricultural industry. Dr. Behrmann states that it is important to feel valued and supported in your work. Farmers can help themselves without feeling inadequate by continuing the support paths that were instilled at a younger age until adulthood. Striving to find that mentality, whether on your own or with help, is vital for future successes.

You can find Shepherd’s Whey Creamery online at shepherdswheycreamery.com
Facebook: @ShepherdsWheyCreamery
Instagram: @shepherdswhey

Articles of interest from Dr. Behrmann:

Exploring the Role of Farm Animals in Providing Care at Care Farms by Jan Hassink, 1 Simone R. DeBruin, 2 Bente Berget, 3 and Marjolein Elings 1 with Karen Thodberg, Academic Editor; Published June 2017.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5483608/

Sources, these are people that I have listened to during other agriculture conferences that are good sources:

Dr. Michael Rosmann

http://www.agbehavioralhealth.com/Columns.html

Monica Kramer McConkey

https://www.eyesonthehorizon.org/?fbclid=IwAR1Ca2A3mfoHyC2US0bHGvvJYTdMYLipdEEA4dWJtGxc80uRXFZwYxPs0yA

LISTEN TO Nick and Tessa's EPISODE HERE OR FIND US ON YOUR FAVORITE PODCAST LISTENING APP!

Summary

On this episode of the Farm Credit AgVocates podcast, Meaghan Webster explores a current trend sweeping rural America that is surprisingly “small”. Nick and Tessa MacDonald in Camden-Wyoming, Delaware decided to ditch debt and downsize their living quarters back in 2019 and began working up a plan to build a tiny home on a couple acres.

Nick and Tessa were kind enough to give Meaghan a (very quick) tour of their beautiful tiny home and educate our listeners on their journey and how they went about buying land and building a tiny home.

Meaghan Webster:

Welcome to the Farm Credit AgVocates podcast, I'm your host, Meaghan Webster, Content and Digital Marketing Strategist at Horizon Farm Credit.

Today's guests are going to give you some serious HGTV vibes in the form of tiny home living. In case you're not hip to some of the background on the tiny home movement, I wasn't, until I did some digging. I wanted to see how this trend started and has carried on throughout the years. So the tiny home movement itself originated in the late seventies, and it was a counter-cultural response to a “greed is good” mentality. Conversely, it encourages environmentalism and social consciousness.

In 2008, the financial downturn caused many to be unable to pay their mortgages, and they started looking to something called right-sizing to find homes that traded extra square footage for a more affordable payment. More recently TV shows like “Tiny House, Big Living” and “Tiny House Nation” have glamorized the small home lifestyle and help gain appeal among those looking to live with less.

I'll have to admit, I think it's kind of a romantic thought to sell most of your things and live a more simple life. But today we get to hear what tiny living is really like, and I couldn't be more excited to hear all about it. To make matters even better, they've invited me to their kitchen table to record this interview. So let's jump right in.

BACKGROUND OF TESSA AND NICK

Meaghan Webster:

Thank you guys for having me over today. I am so excited to be here, before we jump into getting the scoop about tiny house living, I'd like to get to know you guys first. So if you could just tell me a little bit about yourself, who you are, what you do, kind of introduce yourself to our listeners. That would be awesome.

Nick MacDonald:

My name is Nick and I work for a church in Dover, it's called United and I've been there for just about five years. So when we moved back to Delaware, I joined them and we love it.

Tessa MacDonald:

My name is Tessa and we've been married for seven years, almost eight. I grew up in Delaware, I grew up in Sussex County in Greenwood. So I work for A&E properties as the Marketing Director, it is a small business in downtown Dover.

Meaghan Webster:

When you guys were growing up, are you guys familiar with country living or is this kind of like a new thing?

Tessa MacDonald:

So I definitely grew up in the country and had fields all around us on a lot of acres. So I'm used to it. I think for Nick, it's probably a little bit new.

Nick MacDonald:

I went to Lake Forest. It's kind of out in the country a little bit, but I kind of moved around a lot, growing up with my dad being in the military. So yeah, this would be newer for me.

Meaghan Webster:

So how did you guys end up meeting?

Nick MacDonald:

We met through a mutual friend when we were in high school at our church and we just started talking, hanging out and dated for about four years, a little over four years and got married right after college.

Meaghan Webster:

Well, I was excited when your loan officer, Amber, sent me your Instagram. She sent it to me, I think earlier this year, maybe late last year, she sent me the picture of you guys closing on your land. I was so excited. She was like, you have to talk to them, whether it's for the podcast or a video or something, they are so cool. They've got the coolest setup going on. I am a huge fan of seeing all the different kinds of tiny homes.

One of the ones that stands out in my brain, I watch a lot of HGTV when I get the chance, but one that stands out, they were doing a whole episode where they revamped the inside of a school bus. He had like hammocks all over the place and like a kitchen and it was just really cool. But can you describe your tiny house and the land that we're sitting on right now? Just to give our listeners like a little visual?

THEIR TINY HOME

Nick MacDonald:

We are currently sitting in 386 square feet of our home and we're currently in the dining area and I love it. I mean, it's laid out super open and we have nine foot walls, 13 foot vaulted ceilings. It definitely doesn't feel like as tiny for us. We didn't know how it would feel. But it doesn't feel super small for us. This is all on two and a quarter acre of land and so lots of open outdoor activities as well.

Meaghan Webster:

It definitely feels a lot bigger in here with the ceiling. I think in any house, the ceilings are like kind of a key to like how it feels, but it definitely feels bigger than that, which is super cool. So what kind of started like the conversation around tiny home living? Like who started it? Let's point fingers.

Tessa MacDonald:

That’s me. I was actually doing research. I worked for like a home construction company and kind of stumbled across tiny houses. And I was like, oh, they're a lot nicer than what I expected. So then I started kind of doing the math and I was like, wow, if we did do this, we could pay off our student loans a lot faster.

So I jokingly said to Nick, you know, if we sold our house, we lived in a three bedroom, 1800 square foot house at the time. I said, if we sold our house and moved into a tiny house, we could pay off our debt a lot faster. He laughed and I thought that was kind of the end of it. But he did his own research the next couple of days and came back and said, do you really think we could do it? And I said, yes. So here we are.

Meaghan Webster:

That’s so cool. What an idea? My husband's been talking a lot about RV living. He wants to buy an RV, sell the house, travel the country, and we have two dogs. So I don't know, I'm not quite sold on it yet. I need to do my research, but I think that's super cool that you guys kind of just like put it out there and then all of a sudden it just stuck. That's really cool.

So what was your experience like buying land and then building on it? You guys started this process during COVID, is that right?

BUILDING THEIR TINY HOME

Nick MacDonald:

We bought the land in 2019. We still had our current house at the time in Dover. But we knew we wanted to like make the shift. So when we came upon this piece, we were excited about it. I was more excited at first than she was, and so we purchased this land and then we sold our house in January of 2020.

Right before all of the craziness then we started the whole process kind of right as we were heading into the shutdown, we started everything and it was good. There were lots of delays later on in the year, which made things a little more anxious, but all in all it ended up really well.

Meaghan Webster:

Have you guys ever bought land and built before, or this was like completely brand new and then throw a pandemic onto that. That's crazy. Well, I'm glad that you guys were able to kind of skip some of that delay period, at least in the beginning.

So I know it's been a struggle for a lot of people right now with lumber prices and material prices and everything is delayed. So that's good to hear that you guys kind of enjoyed it. If you don't mind me asking, what made you guys go with Farm Credit?

Nick MacDonald:

When we found this property we were looking at a bunch of different lenders and it was really difficult because there was a portion of the land that was improved. So a lot of lenders won't even entertain that. We had a lot of friends recommend Farm Credit.

Once I started looking into it and had conversations with one of your lenders, it just got even better. They're really easy to work with, super friendly and were really fighting for us, even with the improved parts of the land to help make this happen.

Meaghan Webster:

We'll get back to the tiny living perks. That's the more interesting part. So when you guys decided, okay, this is what we're going to do, we're going to buy the land, we're going to build this tiny home.

Did you guys work with a builder that specialized in that? Did you guys pick your own floor plan? Like how did that journey like really start?

TINY LIVING PERKS

Tessa MacDonald:

So we stayed in a lot of tiny homes before we kind of made the decision and we really originally were going to put it on wheels. We were thinking that it would be nice to be mobile, but after talking with my boss who, like I said is a builder, he kind of recommended putting it on a foundation if we weren't planning to travel with it, which we weren't.

So we put it on a foundation, it made it a little bit safer and then I found the floor plan online, and we sort of customized it with the help of A&E as well. So that's kind of how we came up with this specific floor plan and customized it to what we needed.

Meaghan Webster:

I did a little bit of Googling myself just to see like what was out there. It seems like it's starting to become a very niche market for construction companies. Being able to do all of that and kind of make it your own, I think is what really makes it special.

Were there any like unique challenges, I guess with permitting or maybe insurance? It seems like there might be like kind of hang-ups with people or companies that don't typically have to permit or insure something like this.

UNIQUE TINY HOME CHALLENGES

Tessa MacDonald:

We didn't have a ton of issues, but I do think the biggest reason for that was because we did take it off the wheels. I think if we would've left it on wheels, we would have had a little bit more of issues. And Nick has really good relationships with the Kent County area. So we didn't really have any hang-ups with that.

Nick MacDonald:

Oh yeah. It was mainly the wheels, but even the wheels, they ended up getting approved. It just had to have like certain like egress windows and stuff like that. Kent County was definitely way easier to work in for this specific house.

Meaghan Webster:

I feel like there are a lot of people that are still thinking about the tiny house kind of thing. I can imagine that would be kind of overwhelming to have to start from scratch and have to explain to people it's actually a tiny house. So that's good to hear. I personally, definitely see the lore of like minimalistic living. I love cleaning out my closets, my drawers, all of that kind of thing. I love just getting rid of the stuff that doesn't bring me joy anymore. That popular book was, I can't remember the name of it, but I think one of the things that I would definitely miss hosting friends and having people over and not that my kitchen is very big, but I would definitely miss having a full-sized kitchen.

But what has been your biggest challenge moving into a tiny home and having to kind of manage all of that?

Tessa MacDonald:

We always struggle to come up with an answer to this one when people ask us because we really love it and we really, really enjoy it. I would say one of the biggest challenges is just getting to this point, we had enough stuff for a three bedroom home. So we had to sell a lot, all of our furniture and then downsize our clothes and our kitchen stuff and things like that.

But we are looking forward to kind of improving our outdoor area so that we can still have friends over and do things like that. But it definitely was a challenge kind of getting things pared down to get to them.

Nick MacDonald:

Yeah. I think the outdoor that was one of the reasons we wanted to get like more land as we were building and so that we can focus our space in here, but then also have like a larger space outside that we can spend time together and also have like friends and family over.

Meaghan Webster:

Do you guys have any current plans right now for the rest of the space? Two acres is kind of a lot when you have a very small house on it.

FUTURE PLANS

Nick MacDonald:

As far as like living space outside, we definitely are in the process of finding the right concrete person to put a patio in the back and kind of connect the fire pit area and everything. But as far as the rest of the land, it really depends. I mean, we've had thoughts of maybe one day we'll build a standard house on the other side of the property and use this as a rental or an Airbnb or something like that. Or we might just put a couple more tiny houses.

Meaghan Webster:

Yeah. Why not?

Tessa MacDonald:

I think there's beans over there. The farmer uses some of the land for some beans. So that's awesome.

Meaghan Webster:

So I saw that you guys just got back from a trip in a camper van and you drove through Arizona and Utah. How did that go? Like how different was that than being here, with foundations?

Nick MacDonald:

It was a lot of fun. That was our first time out west. So it was really cool just to see some different terrain, just some different environments of Arizona and some of Utah. So it was really cool to be able to experience those things. And the van living was interesting.

It was definitely much smaller. But the biggest hurdle was there was not a bathroom in it and no hot water. So they had a shower hookup in the back, but it was freezing. But we made it work, it was good. And then we were definitely like running into each other a lot more. I think the exciting part was like, it made the adventure so much fun. You can just get up and go.

Meaghan Webster:

Do you think that's something that you'll add into your lifestyle, like add a camper van to it?

Nick MacDonald:

I would love to, yeah. Being able to like outfit something like that is something I would love to do.

Meaghan Webster:

You could do something similar to what you're saying earlier about having it set on wheels. A lot of people love the idea of being able to just get a brand new truck and hook it up and take off with it. I see the lore of both of them.

I'm kind of a homebody. So I get having a foundation somewhere too. And the van life, I don't know if I could deal with not having hot water, I get that, but we'd probably have to make a lot of stops. So how long were you guys doing the van life?

Nick MacDonald:

It was about a week. Throughout the different places we stopped we were able to meet different people. And a lot of the people we met were doing that full time and really the pandemic helped give them that push to work remotely. Many of them sold their house, got an RV or camper and just started traveling.

Meaghan Webster:

Well, something else that some of my colleagues have told me that I needed to ask you guys, do you have any newfound hacks for organizing or getting rid of clutter or anything that makes it a little bit easier for the rest of us?

ORGANIZATION HACKS

Nick MacDonald:

We have a closet organization system that we got from the container store and that helped a ton. So as we were looking at like storage space, especially for our clothes and things like that we wanted to make sure that we were making the best use of our space and there's amazing options that they have for storage space for your closet. So that helped a lot. Other than that, instead of a weekly cleaning, it's more of just like daily tidying up, making sure nothing gets out of hand too quick.

Tessa MacDonald:

Yeah, and doing the laundry every other day instead of saving it for the weekend because we have a two in one, so it takes like six-ish hours to complete a load. So we just have to plan ahead.

Meaghan Webster:

I didn't even know they made those. I would have assumed that it was like a stacked one.

Tessa MacDonald:

It washes first and that's like a normal cycle and then the dry load just takes a lot longer, but it does completely dry the clothes.

Meaghan Webster:

That's really cool. How efficient for your space? I like that. That's great. If you guys had any advice for somebody looking to go the tiny home route, what would you tell them?

ADVICE FOR TINY HOME BUYERS

Tessa MacDonald:

I would say definitely try out staying in some tiny homes. It really helped us figure out what we wanted to prioritize. There's people that work from home and they need office space. I definitely did not want to sacrifice on the closet. I was like, I need room for my clothes and my shoes.

So we have a standard size, it's not huge, but it is standard size. So I think staying in tiny homes, figuring out what it is that's important to you is going to be really, really helpful.

Nick MacDonald:

I think just having fun with the creative options, like the washer and dryer, or a storage bed that you can put things in and stuff like that.

Meaghan Webster:

Does your bed fold up like one of the murphy beds?

Nick MacDonald:

No, it's more of like a drawer storage option, like under it.

Meaghan Webster:

As I thought about that, I was like, that sounds like such a pain. Like what if you fall asleep on the couch and then you have to put it down, it's like, now I'm just sleeping on a couch. That makes sense. We're going to end on something fun. But before we get to like the end part, where can our listeners find you guys if they want to follow along with your tiny home journey?

Tessa MacDonald:

Yeah. So we have an Instagram where we kind of try to post the entire process and tips and stuff like that. And it's @ourtinyplace.

Meaghan Webster:

Perfect. And we will put that in the show notes for anybody listening. So you will definitely be able to find them. This has been so much fun. Thank you guys again for having me here in your dining room.

Before we sign off, I thought it might be kind of fun to end the interview with like a, this or that kind of game. So I'll give you two home features and then you can choose which one that you just can’t live without, or that you prefer. And I want an answer from both of you. So the first one is front porch or back deck?

TINY HOME: THIS OR THAT

Tessa MacDonald:

Oh, back deck.

Nick MacDonald:

Back deck for sure.

Meaghan Webster:

What is your like dream back deck? Like what's it got on it?

Nick MacDonald:

A grill, definitely. Some lounge chairs to soak up that sun and then maybe like a dining table.

Tessa MacDonald:

Yeah, places for friends and a gas fire pit.

Meaghan Webster:

I've always been a big fan of a porch swing.

Tessa MacDonald:

I do love a good swing.

Meaghan Webster:

Indoor plants or an outdoor garden?

Tessa MacDonald:

Indoor plants. Yeah. I'm working on that though. I killed a lot of them so far. I've only killed two, but I have 13. So I think the ratio is pretty good.

Meaghan Webster:

Well, you have a lot of wall space that you can put, you can get lots of and the best part is the ones that vine, then they can go everywhere.

Tessa MacDonald:

You just got to keep them alive that long.

 Meaghan Webster:

Right. What about you? Same one?  

Nick MacDonald:

I would say outdoor garden, but I know that, and she's giving me a look of like, yeah, I probably won't keep up with it. I love the idea of it.

Meaghan Webster:

And the last one, this one's going to be hard. A bigger bathroom or a bigger closet?

Tessa MacDonald:

I'm going to go closet, for sure.

Nick MacDonald:

Yeah, closet.

Meaghan Webster:

Yeah. I'm with you. I have a lot of shoes. My husband always jokes that I need to worry about getting rid of shoes before I get rid of anything else in the house. And I was like, I don't think I can do that. That's a stretch. See, that's my priority. So I would also need a full sized closet.

So we usually sign off with a question about agriculture, but since we're kind of switching it up a little bit, what do you guys advocate for in rural America and country living?

WHAT DO YOU ADVOCATE FOR IN RURAL AMERICA?

Nick MacDonald:

The biggest thing, especially for me being more new to country living would be just like the quiet, the peace, never going to find sunsets like you do out here. And that's been like the best part for me. It's like, I would encourage people. You have to try it at some point in your life because it just brings so much peace to you.

Tessa MacDonald:

I would definitely agree with that.

Meaghan Webster:

Thank you guys so much for having me again. I can't get over how nice of a day it is, how beautiful the house is.

Meaghan Webster:

Thanks for tuning in to today's episode. If you haven't already make sure to rate, review and subscribe to our channel, you can even take a screenshot to share it with a friend. You can get the podcast notes from this episode and previous episodes over at mafc.com/podcast. If you have any suggestions for future topics or guests that you'd like to hear from shoot us an email at podcast@mafc.com. Thanks again for tuning in and until next time, keep on agvocating for what you believe in.

Summary

On this episode of the Farm Credit AgVocates Podcast, we interviewed Diane Kearns, Orchardist from Fruit Hill Orchard and Winchester Ciderworks in Winchester, Virginia. In this episode, you’ll learn about favorite apple varieties, what goes into making an award winning hard cider and how female orchardists are playing an important role in Shenandoah Valley orchard production.

Johanna Rohrer:

Welcome to the Farm Credit AgVocates podcast. I'm your host Johanna Rohrer, Marketing Specialist at Horizon Farm Credit. March is Women's History Month and we wanted to continue sharing great stories of awesome farm owner operators. Diane Kearns is a fifth generation orchardist from the Shenandoah Valley. After completing her schooling, she returned home to the family farm, Fruit Hill Orchard to stay close to the land and to learn from her father. Today she manages over 2,500 acres and produces over 700,000 bushels of apples each year. Some of their apples are then processed into hard cider at Winchester Ciderworks. In 2012, she started Winchester Ciderworks, which is located in Winchester, Virginia, and is known for creating award-winning hard ciders.

Diane, let's get started chatting about all things apples. Hi, Diane.

Diane Kearns:

Jo, how are you?

Johanna Rohrer:

I'm good. I thought it might be interesting to talk first about what it means to be an orchardist.

WHAT IT MEANS TO BE AN ORCHARDIST

Diane Kearns:

Well, an orchardist to me is somebody, number one has got to like to work outside. You've got to enjoy the outside. You need to be a plant person and I'm definitely a plant person. In this day and age, you need to be a problem solver because there's plenty of problems to solve.

Johanna Rohrer:

You spend a lot of your time tending to the fruit trees in your orchards. Could you tell us a little bit more about your farm operation and your business?

Diane Kearns:

Well, our organization is called Fruit Hill Orchard and it has been around like you said in the introduction for about five generations. We are a commercial processing grower, so we grow apples that have been destined for a processor for apple sauce, apple juice, and apple slices, etc. We have had in the past a large amount of acres. We've had up to 3,000 acres of apples and our largest harvest ever was about 1.3 million bushels, which was a lot. Currently that's changing a little bit because it's extremely difficult to make a profit these days in processing apples. That's sort of where the cider concept came in. We were looking for ways to morph our orcharding operation into something that's a little bit more profitable.

Johanna Rohrer:

You've been able to use innovation and that value added piece to enhance your business. Do you see more female owned operators in the fruit business today?

Diane Kearns:

Yes, relative to when I came back because I am 62, I'm not a spring chicken, but yes more than when I first showed up. Now there are actually some of the younger generation coming up. Plus you see more partnerships where the husband and the wife are participating in what's going on, which is really good.

Johanna Rohrer:

Yes, it's really neat to see other people getting involved in the fruit industry and seeing that next generation transition over some of the responsibility. What does your day-to-day work look like? Do you have a favorite season that you work in the orchard?

DAY-TO-DAY IN AN ORCHARD

Diane Kearns:

Well, I would say first of all, my day-to-day, you just never know what's going to happen. It changes from season to season what you end up doing. I wish I could say I were outside all the time, but I'm not. I have to take care of all of the business end of things, so there's a fair amount of time spent in the office doing stuff.  I am not, unfortunately our main horticulturalist. I wish I had that job, I wish I could be outside all the time looking and scouting orchards. I actually have another guy that helps me do that. What my day to day world is, come in and fire up the computer, answer the messages on the phone and just see what's going on. Of course in the spring time, like now, there's a lot of planning going on for what our plans are going to be for the growing season. Of course, you never know what that's going to be.

During the growing season, it's a lot of monitoring what's going on and how you have to adjust those plans. Then, you get into the fall season- which I love the fall. As far as the weather, it’s just tremendous and it's great to be out there, but boy, it’s usually a lot of work. Particularly when in the past years, we've had these massive crops and you have to get it all off as quickly as you can, because all of our apples are handpicked. There's lots of labor, lots of payroll, lots of details to take care of. Then you get into the winter time, which we're just coming out of now. It’s a slow season because everything's asleep and you're pruning. Every now and then you get a day off because of the weather or whatever. You just never know, pick a season and I can tell you a little bit more specifically.

Johanna Rohrer:

I think that's what's so neat about orchard production. I myself grew up in an orchard operation and I think one thing that I've always been able to admire is that the work changes throughout the season. In the winter you might be pruning and doing maintenance in the orchard. Then in the spring, the blossoms start to show and I always feel like it's a time to remember new life. I think I get excited around that time because it feels like the start. Then over the summer you get to watch the apples grow.  Then in the fall, you have that opportunity to reap and benefit from the harvest of what you've been working so hard to produce all year long.  I think when you're in orchard production, it's neat to look at it from different seasons because your work changes throughout the year.

Let's talk a little bit about the idea of planting a new tree. We talk a lot in orchard production that it's called tree stock. You decide you're going to plant a new apple tree, Diane what does the growing and the timeline look like? From the time you plant a tree to the time you actually pick a perfect apple and get that peak production.

DECIDING TO PLANT A NEW TREE

Diane Kearns:

Well first of all, when you decide you want to plant an apple tree, you probably should start planning about three years ahead because all the commercial apple trees are grafted, essentially cloned. What you need to do, I mean you can certainly grow them yourself, but you have to start with a rootstock. You choose a rootstock, which needs to grow for a little bit before it gets the scion or the top wood grafted onto it.

If I were going to buy a tree from a commercial nursery, I would need to tell them three years ahead that I want this particular rootstock, so they can get that rootstock growing. Then, I want this type of wood on top of it. They'll then put that wood on top of it and then they will grow it for a year before they give me a tree. It’s a little wick, maybe slightly bigger than pencil sized and it might be three, four feet tall. That’s when we would set them out into our orchard to start growing them.

I am very familiar with the semi-dwarf trees. We do not grow any of the very high-density type of rootstocks that need to be trellised and irrigated. All of our trees are freestanding, although they only get to be about maybe 18 to 22 feet tall. You plant a tree like that, a semi-dwarf tree and you want the tree to have its skeletal system before you allow it to bear. You don't allow it to have apples, you drop the crop for at least two to three years after you put it in the ground to allow the tree a chance to grow the skeletal structure in the wood needed to hold a full crop. After that, you can begin cropping the tree and generally apples have a tendency to be biannual.

If you don't do anything, they will have a heavy crop one year and not much of a crop the next year and then a heavy crop, then not much of one. That's not particularly desirable from the commercial point of view. You'd like to know and have an even crop, so then you began trying to do things like chemically thinning the crop. You get it even, and then a lot of the semi-dwarf trees will sort of hit their peak production at about 15 years, so they are on a bell curve. They sort of ramp up and their curve goes up and at 15 years they peak and then they will start down the other side, so production will begin to drop off.

The tree itself can live for quite a while. It could live for 25 or 30 years, but the production will just be less and less. In the commercial processing world, you are looking at moving on in about 20 to 25 years after you plant a tree. That's how you get to the perfect gap. You wait about six years after your concept and then you'll have a tree that's producing, assuming that you have managed all the bugs and the diseases during the growing season.

Johanna Rohrer:

I think sometimes as consumers we kind of take it for granted. We go into the grocery store or into a farmer's market and we pick up an apple, but never think about how long it truly can take from start to finish. It's a very long timeline and I think it takes some patience to be in this business. To put those roots in the ground and then wait a number of years until you actually have that production piece off of it. It's a lot of nurturing.

Diane Kearns:

Definitely, definitely. That's one of the reasons when the economics are very different than other things because you have a lot of capital intensive in the very beginning and you have to wait years for that to pay off. That’s one of the things that's interesting about orcharding- that it is a very long-term big picture thing, but at the same time you get the seasonal cycles.

Each year it starts over again and you get to try to make things better. Then even within the year, as you pointed out, you have different seasons, so things are always changing, but there's a big picture to it.

Johanna Rohrer:

Apple producers say this all the time, you can't make good cider with bad apples. I'm curious, what you do to ensure your apple crop is high quality for your cider master?

What types of things do you focus on as an apple grower?

THINGS TO FOCUS ON AS AN APPLE GROWER

Diane Kearns:

Well, I would say one of the first things is in a commercial cidery, you’re trying to make a consistent product so we have a certain blend. Of all the apples I grow, I sort of know what mix of fruit we want to send to the cidery on the base that of a lot of our ciders is an apple called Gold Rush. It gets a lot of sugar and also has a good acidity to it, which is necessary for good cider. What I would say for that one is making sure the Gold Rush basically get enough sugar and are of the size that we want.

One of the things that's really sort of interesting as far as making a good apple for hard cider, is that the developing research hasn't even completely been done on things like the microbiome of the apple, and the fungus. Sulfur is one of the classic things that you put out in the orchard to control fungus, particularly in the late season. Well, too much sulfur can actually affect the fermentation.

I'm thinking about things like that, even though I can't tell you all the great details about that because nobody can yet, we're still researching it. I am thinking about that, looking at the fruit that goes to the cidery and taking notes of what happens during fermentation and trying to see if I could figure out how to make that better. One of the big things I think any cidery would tell you is sugar, because the sugar content is what dictates alcohol content. You can always dilute it if it's got too much sugar, therefore too much alcohol, but if you don't have enough sugar, you are not going to get it. You have to let the fruit ripen appropriately.

Johanna Rohrer:

That's really interesting because one thing that I thought about just in researching before this conversation was what apple varieties do you particularly grow to make hard cider? One of the questions I kept coming back to was, I wonder if they use sweet or tart apples in their apple blend for cider production. I was used to pressing fresh cider as an orchardist with my family's operation, so it was more of a blend of a little bit of sweet and tart in there. From what I hear you saying, the sweetness side to make the fermented hard cider is really important.

Diane Kearns:

It's very important and actually what we try to achieve with our ciders is a consistent balance of acids and tannins which again, naturally occur in apples and we don't need a lot of tannin. It’s the balance of the acid, tannins and of course the taste.

Apples are all over the map and the taste of the fruit is really important, then the sugar is really important. One of the things I think that is absolutely key, and again this is not me- it's my cider master Stephen, to be able to taste fruits and then extrapolate what it's going to be like once you've fermented it and blended it. You have to blend the apples because nothing has the exact mix that you're looking for. A lot of people do single varieties, but a blend allows you to use different kinds of fruit because the fruit is different every year.

Every season, the growing season is different so the fruit is slightly different. If I make a cider out of a single variety, like nothing but a Pippin or nothing but a Harrison, that cider will be slightly different year after year because that's the way the apples are. By using a blend of apples, we're trying to hit a more consistent product across the board. There's a lot that goes into the fruit selection for ciders.

Johanna Rohrer:

You know, I think it's a good reminder that there's a lot of science behind what we do every day. There's a ton of science and innovation behind all of the agricultural goods so many of us enjoy including hard cider.

What made you want to get in to the hard cider business?

HOW DIANE GOT STARTED IN THE HARD CIDER BUSINESS

Diane Kearns:

That's an interesting question because actually we got into it before I really completely understood what I was getting into. It was a bit of a fluke. I won't bother telling you the whole story that Stephen and I just randomly met. My Fruit Hill Orchard randomly ended up with some pressing equipment, like juice pressing equipment. We just started this business and I really didn't understand all of the ABC alcohol laws, which they're significant. I didn't really realize everything it would take to get started nor did I realize how much I was going to get into it once I got into it.

We started with a very small group, very organically because we had other jobs to do so whenever you could put your time to it, you could. The more I got into it, the more I really enjoy the cider apple thing. What I realized now, it sort of goes hand in hand with my concept of organic growing because I can do different things horticulturally with cider apples and I need to understand things more.

The learning part and the working with plants is really fascinating, which I really love. One of the things I'll point out, is having that sugar is really important. When the fruit is fully ripened, they'll also have different flavors. I want a fully ripe apple, but what happens to a fully ripe apple; it falls off the tree. In the commercial processing world, we can't pick any fruit off of the ground because of the chance of contamination.

In the cider world, it's quite interesting. The creation of the alcohol, when the sugars turn into alcohol by the yeast, that's a kill process. Anything else gets killed because it can't live in the alcohol, which means that I can actually pick that fruit up off the ground. There's a bunch of different things like that on the horticultural side that just allow different things in the cider world that perhaps wouldn't be allowed in the commercial world. There are a lot of things you have to pay attention too.

Johanna Rohrer:

What types of signature ciders are available at Winchester Ciderworks?

WINCHESTER CIDERWORKS

Diane Kearns:

Well, I would start out with the very first one that we created was an entirely apple cider and a blend of five different varieties and we called it Malice, which is a takeoff on the genus name of an apple, malus. That would be our signature, number one brand. Stephen really enjoys experimenting, so what we create is basically English style ciders from where he grew up with sort of a new twist. We do different flavors.

The signature ciders, I would say what we call our flagship which are basically the same apple blend. We have a black currant, ginger, pear and then there's a combination of the black currant and the ginger. We also have barrel-aged ciders. Instead of the cider being aged in stainless steel tanks, Stephen puts it into a barrel. If the barrel happens to have a flavor like bourbon, rum, or brandy, it picks up that flavor, which really adds a different, interesting taste to that. We also do some natural fermentations.

The two types that I was talking about prior is when you introduce a yeast, a strong strain of a yeast that will basically overpower the natural yeasts that occur. We also do fermentations where you don't add any yeast and it naturally begins fermenting from the yeast that's floating around in the air, which creates a slightly different animal.

Johanna Rohrer:

Where can we find your site or [where the cider is] sold for all of our folks listening? What is the best cider to try first?

Diane Kearns:

Well, we currently have distribution in basically the Mid-Atlantic region. We have distributors in Virginia, West Virginia and Maryland. We're getting ready to move into North Carolina. Right now, other than online through a company called Tabor in Washington State, that's the only place you can get it.

Within the Mid-Atlantic region, you can find it in Trader Joe's, Martin's food stores and in specialty beverage shops. The way the alcohol laws work is that we sell our cider to a distributor and the distributor then has the sole discretion who he sells that product too. Of course we try to collaborate, but I can't tell you exactly where all of our product goes. I do know in our region Martin’s food stores, Trader Joe's down toward DC has moved quite a bit. We are in Wegmans and most specialty beverage shops.

Johanna Rohrer:

If I'm going to buy my first cider from you guys, what do you recommend?

Diane Kearns:

I would suggest you either get the Malice cider or the 522 Black Current. The 522 Black Currant has been super well received. Many people tell me it tastes slightly sweeter. Both of these ciders are what they consider off dry. It's about 2% residual sugar, so there's a tiny bit of sweetness, but not much. The acidity on the 522 is a little bit different than the Malice, and that's why people think it's sweeter. Actually it's not sweeter, it's just the acidity is there.

Johanna Rohrer:

Okay, I want to come buy some hard cider, hopefully soon! I really want to try some of this. I'm looking forward to taking your recommendations and having a taste test here in the near future.

Besides hard cider, do you have any other favorite ways that you enjoy apples?

FAVORITE WAYS TO ENJOY APPLES

Diane Kearns:

Well, as you might imagine, I eat a lot of apples. I would say the best thing is just fresh. Picking one off the tree or having a few in a basket or refrigerator or whatever. I do like to eat fresh apples a lot.

I guess I would say one of my favorite ways, is take an apple, it doesn't matter whether it's sweet or tart, cut it up and eat it with a little bit of caramel. That's one of my favorite desserts. Also, I've been trying to perfect my apple pie. For years, I made apple crisp and then recently I felt like I needed to get better at making pie. I don't think it's perfect yet, but it's a lot better than it used to be.

Johanna Rohrer:

Yep. I enjoy making apple pies. I have a favorite apple that I always go to for apple pies.

Diane Kearns:

Which is what, what's your favorite for apple pies?

Johanna Rohrer:

Actually, it is a Lancaster County apple called a Smokehouse- it's a greener apple. It comes into season in September and by the middle of September, I'm ready for apple season. At that point in our growing season, we've finished peaches or we're coming down to the end of peach season. We’re transitioning into those early season apple varieties. I love a Smokehouse apple because it cooks down in the pie and it gets a little softer, but it still keeps its shape and I love the flavor. For me, that's my favorite local apple for pie.

Speaking of favorites, let's do a little rapid fire. I'm going to test you to see what you like better.

Do you like apple pie or apple dumplings?

Diane Kearns:

Apple pie.

Johanna Rohrer:

Okay. What about whole apples or cut apples?

Diane Kearns:

Whole apples.

Johanna Rohrer:

I'm the same way. I totally eat whole apples. I don't take the time to cut them up because it's too much work. I'd rather just eat an apple whole.

Tart apples are sweet apples?

Diane Kearns:

Oh, it depends on what kind of mood I am in. After dinner, I want a sweet apple. If it's a snack in the afternoon, that’s a tart one.

Johanna Rohrer:

I know that's the beauty of so many different varieties of apples. You can always find a flavor that's going to fit what type of mood you're in or what you're looking for.

If you had to pick one favorite apple variety, we've heard you talk about a couple of varieties throughout the interview, but one favorite apple variety. It doesn't necessarily have to be for cider production, but what's your favorite?

Diane Kearns:

Oh, you're going to have to tell me, what am I using it for? If I'm cooking, I really like York Imperial because they hold their shape. For making applesauce, something completely different, like maybe a Lodi. If I'm going to just pick one up and eat it, I really do like Gold Rush as a really balanced apple, but I also like Fuji's. They are really sweet and sometimes a Fuji is what I want. It really depends on what I'm using it for, which is like you said is the beauty. When I go to store some apples, I always put multiple varieties away, so I have that option.

Johanna Rohrer:

Yes. I asked that question as a trick question, because I think many of us in the orchard business would have answered it the same way. We have specific apples that we like for certain things. If you're listening and you've not necessarily figured that out yet, there are some apples that are better to cook with, there are some apples that are better for applesauce, and there are some apples that are just better to eat fresh. When you're visiting your local orchards, reach out to those orchard producers, they'll be happy to steer you in the right direction.

What are you are most proud of as a female apple producer?

WOMEN IN AG

Diane Kearns:

I guess I would say the fact that everybody I work with does not address the fact that I'm female. I would say in our group of apple growers, there are girls or females that are working, doing this, but we're all the same. I guess I would say when I was younger and came in, I was happy that the men treated me as an equal. Now, I feel like we are all equals and we're all just people working in this industry. That to me is exactly what I want and exactly what I think it should be.

Johanna Rohrer:

This month is Women's History Month and I'm just curious, where do you see the future role of women in Ag heading in the future?

Diane Kearns:

Well, I hope it's going to continue to be more and more women in Ag. Eventually you would love to see the 50-50 split because I just see people as individuals. We're all individuals working toward the same thing. We all love to be outside, love to see the natural world at work, understand how it works and helping it along to create the things that we need/want from it.

I hope that there'll be more and more women that will venture out, like to work outside and feel comfortable working right alongside whoever it is. Being in a male companion, or someone from a foreign country because that's the way it is with a lot of labor right now. Actually for me, working with a diverse population is fantastic, I love it. I just hope more women get to enjoy that and get the opportunity to do it.

Johanna Rohrer:

I think agriculture just continues to grow and the network of people that we're working with also continues to grow. It's just such a nice time to be able to do business with each other and make the industry the best that we can for the future. I think that is what's so neat about how the industry is growing in the space that it's in today.

Before we sign off today, what do you advocate for in agriculture?

Diane Kearns:

More direct-to-consumer sales. What I really, really want to see happen is more people pay attention to where their food comes from, go out and seek it directly from the farmer so that they can understand where it is and the farmer can explain to them how it works.

Johanna Rohrer:

The story of how it's produced on the farm and then how it gets into family members homes is such an opportunity to make that connection. I think that's a great answer to advocate for the future of agriculture.

Well, thanks Diane so much for joining us. Remember to visit Winchester Ciderworks on Facebook, Instagram, or visit winchesterciderworks.com.

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Horizon Farm Credit recently announced the six recipients of their first annual Farmers on the Rise program, awarding $10,000 prizes to young, beginning, small, minority, and/or veteran farmers in their territory. The following agriculturalists received this year’s honor:

• Caleb Crothers and Alice Crothers of Long Green Farms Inc. in Rising Sun, Maryland
• Emma Jagoz of Moon Valley Farm in Woodsboro, Maryland
• Joseph and Jenell McHenry of McHenry’s Harvesting/Beef in Kennedyville, Maryland
• Robert “Wesley” Miller, Jr. and Amanda Miller of Chesapeake Gold Farms in North East, Maryland
• Matthew “Levi” Sellers and Bille Jo Sellers of South Mountain MicroFARM in Boonsboro, Maryland
• Atiya Wells of Backyard Basecamp, Inc. in Baltimore, Maryland

“We were pleased to have received more than 60 eligible applications and were inspired by each and every one of them,” says Tom Truitt, CEO of Horizon Farm Credit. “The six recipients of this year’s award were recognized based on their efforts in agriculture, financial character, leadership, community wellbeing, and environmental stewardship. The future of agriculture within our region is incredibly diverse, and we are excited to watch these producers positively impact our industry.”

The contest was open to applicants that identify with at least one of the following categories: 18 to 40 years of age, a minority farmer, a veteran farmer, run a small farm with annual gross ag income less than $250,000, or a beginning farmer with less than 10 years of farming experience.

Horizon Farm Credit recently announced the promotion of Jason Reep to mortgage loan origination manager. He is based in the association’s Bel Air, Maryland office.

“I’m very excited to continue my career with Farm Credit in this new role,” says Reep. “My years of experience with the association and our mortgage solutions will allow me to make a bigger impact with our customers.”

Prior to becoming the mortgage loan origination manager, Reep was a mortgage loan originator with Farm Credit for over nine years. In his new role, he will be supporting the secondary mortgage market department by helping them reach sales and training goals, while ensuring compliance standards are met for all consumer lending practices.

“Jason knows the ins and outs of Farm Credit, our customers, and our mortgage programs,” says Jim Aird, Horizon Farm Credit’s PennMarVa Regional Vice President. “He will transition well into this role, and we look forward to having him oversee this department and working closely with our members across our territory.”

Reep is a member of the Cecil County Board of REALTORS®’ mortgage finance committee and the Harford County Chamber of Commerce. Outside of work, he enjoys traveling, exercising, and spending time with his family.